The effects of even donning a camera ( and scary situations as a result of it)

about to extinct

D
about to extinct

  • 1
  • 0
  • 67
Fantasyland!

D
Fantasyland!

  • 9
  • 2
  • 123
perfect cirkel

D
perfect cirkel

  • 2
  • 1
  • 125

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
198,748
Messages
2,780,337
Members
99,694
Latest member
michigap
Recent bookmarks
1

blockend

Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2010
Messages
5,049
Location
northern eng
Format
35mm
My friend didn't want to end up dead or pepper sprayed. He reformatted the card, deleted everything, that got him out of a scary situation.
Which goes to show the police officer didn't really believe your friend was a threat to security. If they did they would have retained his memory card and closely examined its contents for evidence of terrorist intent. They want to scare people off.

I saw a YouTube video recently where a guy who persisted in filming police premises was threatened under the prevention of terrorism act. The police didn't think he was a terrorist, the knew him and even referred to an unrelated case concerning his daughter, they were saying the law could be interpreted any way they choose.
 

pdeeh

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
4,765
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
I still haven't found out whether it's safe for me to leave the house tho'.
 

guangong

Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Messages
3,589
Format
Medium Format
Here is no discretion once your hand is on the shutter. And here is no discretion if you want to frame it right.

You could only be unnoticed if people are not noticing a.k.a. busy.
Or if it is early Annie Leibovitz style. Which is stay long enough with same people until at some point of the time they will stop reacting on it.
If you kept your hand on the shutter all the time in North Korea or jiggle a lot with cameras then I could believe in it. If not they just didn't care.
Just like they did with HCB in Moscow at first time.

It seems UK guards are really lame according to you, where I'm - no photography means no cameras. Mobile phone or Ikonta it doesn't matter here.

First, while usually desirable, composing a picture within a viewfinder is often not possible. As for North Koreans, I was very closely watched because I was what they were paying attention to. By the way, for many pictures my fingers never touched the shutter release. I also used Leica M4 cameras. Almost any camera with a reasonably quiet shutter will do. I use Minox subminiature for pocketable convenience and not its “spy” qualities, to always have a camera handy. .

There are many ways to take photographs and not be noticed in the act. Too broad a subject to discuss here but mainly uses principles of magic. If you are interested. Study Schiffman’s book Abracadabra or Annemann’s Practical Mental Effects.
 

pentaxuser

Member
Joined
May 9, 2005
Messages
19,935
Location
Daventry, No
Format
35mm
I still haven't found out whether it's safe for me to leave the house tho'.
If this is a reference to "what's happening in Britain" I too await the answer. DT visited us last week but if it was his visit you are now safe as he's in Helsinki :D

pentaxuser
 

NB23

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2009
Messages
4,307
Format
35mm
I’ll always remember that crackhead who came to me out of nowhere, on a busy street:

-hey man, you took my picture
-No I didn’t but if you were in the crowd, you’ll probably be in there somewhere.
-I swear, if you took my picture I’m gonna track you down all my life until I find you, I swear man! I’m glnna find you and...
-stfo you stupid hobo, walk away before I break your face

He left.

Haha.
 

pdeeh

Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
4,765
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
Actually, I've just been looking at what's been happening in Helsinki, and I think it might be better for all of us to take care.

Think I'll sign from the thread now.
 

Theo Sulphate

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Messages
6,489
Location
Gig Harbor
Format
Multi Format
...As for North Koreans, I was very closely watched because I was what they were paying attention to. By the way, for many pictures my fingers never touched the shutter release. I also used Leica M4 cameras. Almost any camera with a reasonably quiet shutter will do. I use Minox subminiature for pocketable convenience and not its “spy” qualities, to always have a camera handy.
...

I always thought N. Koreans would make you have your film developed there before you left - that they would develop it to ensure it had nothing they wouldn't like.

Likewise, today I think they want to examine the digital images.
 

mshchem

Subscriber
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Messages
14,627
Location
Iowa City, Iowa USA
Format
Medium Format
I always thought N. Koreans would make you have your film developed there before you left - that they would develop it to ensure it had nothing they wouldn't like.

Likewise, today I think they want to examine the digital images.
I wouldn't get within a thousand miles of N Korea.
 

Theo Sulphate

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Messages
6,489
Location
Gig Harbor
Format
Multi Format
I wouldn't get within a thousand miles of N Korea.

No visiting Tokyo camera stores for you!

(Tokyo is 800 miles from Pyongyang; southern Japan is even closer: about 300 miles from Japanese coast to N. Korean border)
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,973
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
I think back to soviet times in russia
Well, one should not forget that the Zenits alone were sold in millions. It is not so that people were not allowed to take photographs, let alone just sport a camera.
 

ReginaldSMith

Member
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
527
Location
Arizona
Format
35mm
September 11, 2001

Marks the privacy watershed. After that date, photography became subversive. Slowly at first, of course, but easy to detect for any one who carries cameras around in public.

I've been detained by police many times for photographing in downtowns, and in industrial areas. I've been detained by security guards in malls. However, never because of a cell phone, always because of large cameras. The more gear I was packing, the more likely to be stopped. Filming any sort of police action is a ticket to a traumatic brain injury.

Surveillance is intended to be unidirectional. Indications look like it will get continuously worse for camera toters. I used to carry a written citation of the law, thinking well, some police are probably just ignorant of the law. Then a police told me to roll that up and stick it up my arse. Followed by even more vile threats. That was in 2012. You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
 

hoffy

Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
3,073
Location
Adelaide, Au
Format
Multi Format
September 11, 2001

Marks the privacy watershed. After that date, photography became subversive. Slowly at first, of course, but easy to detect for any one who carries cameras around in public.

I've been detained by police many times for photographing in downtowns, and in industrial areas. I've been detained by security guards in malls. However, never because of a cell phone, always because of large cameras. The more gear I was packing, the more likely to be stopped. Filming any sort of police action is a ticket to a traumatic brain injury.

Surveillance is intended to be unidirectional. Indications look like it will get continuously worse for camera toters. I used to carry a written citation of the law, thinking well, some police are probably just ignorant of the law. Then a police told me to roll that up and stick it up my arse. Followed by even more vile threats. That was in 2012. You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.
Without trying to sound like Alanis Morissette, Isn't it Ironic that all the freedoms you fought for during the cold war were the first ones given up when National Security became very very important......

I have been hassled a few times. Once by a guy in a crowd. I explained to him that it wasn't illegal to take a picture of people in public. He shrugged his shoulders and left.

The other time, much more recently, was when I tried to take a picture of a Barista working in a hole in the wall Cafe. He took massive (and I mean MASSIVE - swearing and everything) offence to me taking his picture from the sidewalk. The thing that made it worse is that it started off a pack reaction, as that some of the people he was serving got in on the action, supporting him. I have to admit, that one did have a bit of an effect on me and I left and have become a bit camera shy.
 

Sirius Glass

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Messages
50,356
Location
Southern California
Format
Multi Format
September 11, 2001

Marks the privacy watershed. After that date, photography became subversive. Slowly at first, of course, but easy to detect for any one who carries cameras around in public.

I've been detained by police many times for photographing in downtowns, and in industrial areas. I've been detained by security guards in malls. However, never because of a cell phone, always because of large cameras. The more gear I was packing, the more likely to be stopped. Filming any sort of police action is a ticket to a traumatic brain injury.

Surveillance is intended to be unidirectional. Indications look like it will get continuously worse for camera toters. I used to carry a written citation of the law, thinking well, some police are probably just ignorant of the law. Then a police told me to roll that up and stick it up my arse. Followed by even more vile threats. That was in 2012. You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

And cell phones are most likely to be used by terrorists [they are smart enough not to draw attention with cameras], but no one complains about cell phones and security gives a pass to cell phones. Bottom line security guards do not know what they should be doing.
 

ReginaldSMith

Member
Joined
May 14, 2018
Messages
527
Location
Arizona
Format
35mm
My estimation is that the reason that authorities don't "care" about cell phones is that the cell phone is the necessary personal tracking device that they want everyone to carry. They don't want to discourage people from having and using cell phones. I suspect authorities view cameras, and maybe especially film cameras, as being "too off-grid" and therefore too powerful and subversive. At least that's what their behavior telegraphs.
 
Joined
Feb 10, 2010
Messages
2,832
Location
Flintstone MD
Format
35mm
It's unfortunate people believe they can bully and create havoc on a whim. This is an old photo of my friends at our annual gathering. Yep I hang out with these guys and many like them. 6 foot 300 pounds 50 inch chest and 17 inch biceps. I don't have those problems yet rarely take photos of strangers. People move out of line in front of me for no reason. If I witness a bully plying his game it becomes my personal mission to put a halt to it. I'm pushing 60 years old and still few bother me. I really despise people pushing others around. Sorry you had to experience that.


image034_231tag5.JPG
 

Theo Sulphate

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Messages
6,489
Location
Gig Harbor
Format
Multi Format
People using cell phones to make a photo are perceived as "not serious" or frivolous. People using what is obviously a dedicated camera and lens are perceived as being "serious" in their intent and therefore are a threat in some situations.

Trivial example: at a PGA tournament, people make cellphone photos but officials will forbid you from using even the quietest camera if you don't have a press pass.
 

Bill Burk

Subscriber
Joined
Feb 9, 2010
Messages
9,290
Format
4x5 Format
In the real world. If you start taking pictures of critical infrastructure, tunnels, bridges,chemical plants, be ready to be pounced on by the police. I have a friend that was traveling, he's a retired professor, high resolution medium format digital camera. He's taking landscape photos that included some sort of facility.
I read in “Don’t Shoot” that you can get away with it if you wear a hard hat and flourescent vest.
 

BMbikerider

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
2,946
Location
UK
Format
35mm
I personally don't like to have my picture taken, no particular reason except I just don't. However if I am out in public and it happens, so what, in a country (an overcrowded one) , in a public space there is nothing I can do legally to stop them. The main problem seems to lie with areas where a lot of children congregate, outside schools etc' Stand outside one, on your own with a camera of any kind and if one of the parents sees you, it is a risk I would not take for fear of being lynched! This is fully understandable considering the risk Pedophiles pose towards children. I would not do it either because I am not that way inclined.

Don't even mention security cameras. The UK is the most heavily surveyed country in the world. There are more security cameras here than anywhere else per head of population. Go about your normal business - I have no problem with that at all. Step out of line doing something illegal, then the gloves are off that person is fair game.

The way things are at present are tempered with a new regulation involving Data Protection (General Data Protection Regulations 2017) where someone can be identified from a picture that later becomes news or appears on television, the face has to be pixelated out unless express permission is granted to use it. Otherwise it is more or less a free for all with a few exceptions. On Railway Stations which are private property, Outside Military or other secure establishments covered by the Official Secrets Act. Shopping malls, again private property, The private security used by some establishments, even Government buildings, have no jurisdiction outside the doors of the premises they are contracted to protect, but there was a spell of them exceeding their authority of the grounds of 'security'. This was prevalent after the bombings on the London Underground and other places but this 'excessive vigilance' has now largely stopped.

No one, including Police have the right to demand that you delete images from a memory card, or seize film from a camera. but it is wise to let them (The police only. Anyone else tell them to take a walk) see what you have photographed, although you can refuse access to police officer, this may however make them think you have something to hide and give them cause to dig deeper. So if there is nothing of any consequence, let them look, that will be the end of the situation. If they do look further and find that you have committed an offence you could be arrested and you equipment siezed for examination, so it is best to go along with them. At the end of the day if all's well you will get an apology and your equipment back.

In UK there is a national organisation called the National Trust who look after, maintain and restore old buildings of significant historical interest. They used to refuse any permission to photograph INSIDE because of a risk of flash damaging fine fabrics etc. Not physical damage, but the light causing the colours to fade. It was only when it was pointed out that a flash only lasts around 1/5000 of a second, give or take, that they eventually relented. (Actually I think it was more to do with loss of sales of photographs they were selling in the gift shops!).

At the end of it, if a situation look a bit dodgy then hide you camera and walk away.
 

AgX

Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,973
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
I've been detained by police many times for photographing in downtowns, and in industrial areas. I've been detained by security guards in malls. However, never because of a cell phone, always because of large cameras.

Detained or interrogated and bullied at place?
To my understanding "detained" means being confined at least at police station.
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom