The definitive word (I hope) on color stabilzers!

dale116dot7 · Jul 8, 2016

I've been running the 'new' 6E6 Fuji Hunt E6 kit and I did not see any reference to formaldehyde in any of the MSDS. I do wear PPE anyways (mask, face shield, gloves, apron), but I looked and didn't see any of the synonyms for formaldehyde. Surely there must be something in there to stabilize the dyes?

Photo Engineer · Jul 8, 2016

If it has a pre-bleach bath, this likely contains sodium formaldehyde bisulfite which changes into formalin and sulfur dioxide when the time is right. If it does not, then the Fuji E6 films have changed and the process is not suitable for ANY old E6 film from Kodak unless there is a formalin bath of some sort.

PE

dale116dot7 · Jul 8, 2016

There is a pre-bleach with EDTA in it, nothing else on the MSDS. I was curious about this - you might be (and probably are) right, they might have changed the film formulation to not require the formalin. Sometimes I process some old Kodak E6 film (or X-pro SO-279) but those are artistic shots I'm not worried about.

Photo Engineer · Jul 8, 2016

If Fuji, use their process, if Kodak old E6, use a formalin stabilizer then.

PE

Abutate · Jan 16, 2017

PE:

Thanks again for such a detailed thread.
I have got some Kodak Vericolor III 35mm Film to process which expired in 95 to 1999.

Can i just buy Formaldehyde 37% Solution From amazon/ebay and mix 10ML in 190ML of water to make 200ML Solution?

Thanks again

Photo Engineer · Jan 16, 2017

Yes, but then add the required amount of Photo Flo 200 to make that 200 ml of solution.

I forget the amount, but probably in the range of 1/2 to 2 ml.

PE

Abutate · Jan 16, 2017

PE:

You are very kind. keep you posted.

iandvaag · Jan 16, 2017

PE, in the OP you said the rate should be 3-10mL Formalin per liter. Since Abutate is using only 1/5th of a liter (200mL), won't 10mL of formalin be 5 times too much? Or does it not really matter?

Truzi · Jan 16, 2017

From the various posts PE made regarding stabilizer in this and other threads, I did the following:

10.0 ml formalin
2.5 ml Photo Flo
Added distilled water to make 1 liter.

It seems to have worked for me, but it will probably take a few decades to find out. I was purposely light on the Photo Flow.

Photo Engineer · Jan 16, 2017

Formalin is the active ingredient here. Photo Flo just prevents water spots.

PE

Abutate · Jan 18, 2017

I absolutely do not want to hijack the thread.

What happens if we use current stabilizer on old films made/expired before 2000

thanks

Photo Engineer · Jan 18, 2017

They fade!

slx · Jan 20, 2017

Hi, I I'm looking for a final word about RA4 water washing and stabilizing.
I understand, that because of the lack of silver, a microorganism killing agent, as for c41, would be useful.
I also see that 'modern' minilabs waterless process substituted the final water rinse/wash with stabilizing bads.
In the Kodak ra-4 sheets there is no mention of stabilizing bad in dark room (not minilab) processing (only water).
A little bit confusing..
What's your advice for the last steps (after the bloc step in the processor) of dark room color processing?
Only water? Only stabilizing? Both? What are the differences between c41 and ra4 stabilizing bads?
Thank you all for your help!

Photo Engineer · Jan 20, 2017

A water wash for color paper is just fine as long as no red bleach fix color remains in the wash water. A stabilzer is available for it to help protect against attack by microorganizms and there are those that will further extend stability. I suggest just the wash, or wash plus RA4 stabilizer.

PE

slx · Jan 20, 2017

What are the differences between RA4 and c41 stabilizing. I'm courius, I read the whole (very interesting) thread, which is more focused on the differences between e6 and c41.
Moreover how can I in case recognize a stability improving stabilizing ?
Thanks PE!

Gerald C Koch · Jan 20, 2017

Silver as either the metal or ion is a powerful biocide. Since it nearly impossible to completely remove it from emulsions I would think that bacterial attack is highly improbable. It has been claimed that people who eat with silver tableware have a lower risk of gastrointestinal diseases.

Photo Engineer · Jan 20, 2017

Formalin stabilzed older dyes from fade by neutralizing infestation by mold and bacteria, but it also reacted with excess coupler thereby preventing formation of byproducts and preventing yellowing. Today, new couplers are used that avoid most of these problems. Also UV absorbers and free radical eliminators are used in paper coatings. It is expected that papers are exposed to more extreme conditions than films.

PE

nevintagefilms · Mar 21, 2017

Forgive me if I am being redundant or not getting it... but... should we still try to use a formaldehyde-based final rinse/stabilizer on new c41 stocks or is the "final rinse" solution (https://www.uniquephoto.com/product...m-5-liters-8673170/_/searchString/final rinse) sufficient to have archival quality c41.

Also, what should I use with E6. I am going to get the FUJI E6 solution:

http://www.freestylephoto.biz/660162-Fuji-Hunt-Chrome-6X-E-6-Processing-Kit-5-Liters

Lastly, I am going to start with the cheapest Arista E6 kit: http://www.freestylephoto.biz/1181-Arista-Rapid-E-6-Slide-Developing-Kit-1-Pint

Can I use c41 bleach and fixer with this rather than use the included "Blix" combo?

Thanks!

Photo Engineer · Mar 21, 2017

Use either final rinse or stabilizer with modern color films of any sort.

There is a blix / bleach thread that gives instruction for your question. The short answer is yes.

PE

elerion · Apr 21, 2017

I'm aware of many threads about chemical toxicity, which is not really the point of this message.
Developer, stop and blix are rinsed, so properly used, I'm not concerned about them.

But stabilizer should not be removed from the film. It stays on it, and once dried, you handle the negatives unaware of it.

Does the stabilizer remain on the film? does it suppose any risk if unhandled properly? For example, when used for enlarging, or scanning.

I read that stabilizers are quite nasty for health (but don't know if they are formaldehyde-based ones, or all of them). I haven't find formaldehyde in the Tetenal kit MSDS (but not being an expert, I don't know many othe its ingredients, which may be similar).

Thanks!

PittP · Apr 21, 2017

elerion said:
I haven't find formaldehyde in the Tetenal kit MSDS

Slide/reversal film (E6-development) still requires formalin as had been stated in a myriad of posts on this site. Considering the miniscule amounts retained in/on the developed film, and as one normally would not eat the developed films, well, I can't imagine any health issues (possibly except for hyper-allergic issues, though I've never heard of regarding the developed films).
The health warnings on chemistry apply to the packeged product, not the developed film.
The Tetenal Colortec E6-kit has formalin in the final stabiliser bath:

Photo Engineer · Apr 21, 2017

The formalin reacts with the gelatin and residual couplers and is therefore rendered harmless. This takes place during drying.

PE

B&Wpositive · Apr 25, 2017

PE,

What about the current Fuji "Stabilizer" (not Formalin, but: 1,2-Benziso-thiazolin-3-one). A little chemistry knowledge is a dangerous thing, but mine tells me this is a keytone, whereas Formalin is an aldehyde. Any comments on the potential suitability of this newer Fuji Stabilizer for older C-41 film that you say requires Formalin?

Source: http://www.largeformatphotography.i...-what-is-the-stabilizer-in-fuji-hunt-chemical

Photo Engineer · Apr 26, 2017

Sodium Formaldehyde Bisulfite or some similar compound is added before the bleach and is activated then to supply the stabilizing action. The compound you mention is a bacteriostat / fungicide to prevent gelatin deterioration.

PE

B&Wpositive · Apr 26, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
Sodium Formaldehyde Bisulfite or some similar compound is added before the bleach and is activated then to supply the stabilizing action. The compound you mention is a bacteriostat / fungicide to prevent gelatin deterioration.

PE

PE,

To clarify: The role of 1,2-Benziso-thiazolin-3-one is strictly a bacteriostat/fungicide and has no real stabilization role like Formalin??

If so, wouldn't that mean the Fuji process is unsuitable for older C-41 film?

The definitive word (I hope) on color stabilzers!

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