The comeback?

[removed account4]

Besides, video is going to put us all out of business.

its been putting us out of business for a while !
hired togs shoot DV stream for web content and
burn the CD/DVD to give to the AD/CD on set without an edit
THEN the AD/CD has another employee cherry pick stills out of the stream.
running strong agents told me this was the case IDK in 2010? when i called her
to submit my portfolio for review her first question was do you shoot video because
we don't use still photographers anymore we just ... i doubt much has changed seeing
DV is that much more sophisticated these days, and everyone seems to have no attention span
so if the image is moving or a stitched gif its just perfect.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

Apparently this is the case. Our local community college has now added video courses to the photography curriculum.

One of my Pro class instructors came out of Brooks and had his own BW lab in Oakland. He was one of the first to bring digital into the program and does not use film in his classes. He started a HDSLR class in conjunction with the Media Dept.(video) co-taught with a fine instructor from Media.

 

[rbultman]

I love film but, just like ex-girlfriends, that doesn't mean there is a place in your life for them.

This might possibly be the best quote that I have ever read. I wonder if it was borrowed. If so, please provide attribution. If not, bravo.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

Thank you.

Many years ago I was spending an afternoon with a close lady friend. I get a call from an Ex; she's in a fix and wants my help. I do what I can. My lady friend, not particular happy and feeling threatened, said I shouldn't help the Ex. I told her, simply, that you never stop loving someone, they just don't fit in your life anymore.

 

[removed account4]

All I’ve ever read in John’s posts is do whatever you like, and have fun doing so.

i also use a fingernail-file as a screwdriver;and hand-hold-long-exposures;and use garbage-bin-ready-materials, non-refrigerated-materials, developers made by guesstimating;and make-coffee-in-a-perkolater;and think if you arent' having a good time there really is no point ( unless you are yossarian )

 

[jtk]

Thank you.

Many years ago I was spending an afternoon with a close lady friend. I get a call from an Ex; she's in a fix and wants my help. I do what I can. My lady friend, not particular happy and feeling threatened, said I shouldn't help the Ex. I told her, simply, that you never stop loving someone, they just don't fit in your life anymore.

In many ways they are all the same woman. If you can't "stop loving someone" you don't love the current someone.

 

[pbromaghin]

I'm glad I don't do it for a living.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

In many ways they are all the same woman. If you can't "stop loving someone" you don't love the current someone.

Really?!

As long as we stay on topic we all gain.

 

[removed account4]

As long as we stay on topic we all gain.

berkeley mike

do all your students / students that go through your program go on to be paid working photographers?
or do some of them do it because they want to become proficient, you know like CE / elective classes ?
the lions share of people i have known or met who took photography classes at a university, college &c
who were not in a MFA/BFA program did it as an elective course .. and very few of the people who weren't in
the MFA/BFA program went past 3 semesters, or on to jobs that had anything to do with photography ...
other than enjoying themselves, knowing how to compose an image, how to process film
( or get it processed by someone ) &c .. you know, scratching their photography itch ....do your classes
link up with graphic arts/commerical arts classes ( illustration, design &c ) or classes that might give the aspiring
commerical photographer the knowledge of how their product, architectural portrait photographs/photographic illustrations
will be used & added to as communication art / graphics on the printed page or digital screen ?
i've always thought the way photography was taught either as a vocation or as an art missed these things and kind of left
the photographer hanging in the breeze wondering what to do next after they get their degree or certificate...

 

[jtk]

berkeley mike

do all your students / students that go through your program go on to be paid working photographers?
or do some of them do it because they want to become proficient, you know like CE / elective classes ?
the lions share of people i have known or met who took photography classes at a university, college &c
who were not in a MFA/BFA program did it as an elective course .. and very few of the people who weren't in
the MFA/BFA program went past 3 semesters, or on to jobs that had anything to do with photography ...
other than enjoying themselves, knowing how to compose an image, how to process film
( or get it processed by someone ) &c .. you know, scratching their photography itch ....do your classes
link up with graphic arts/commerical arts classes ( illustration, design &c ) or classes that might give the aspiring
commerical photographer the knowledge of how their product, architectural portrait photographs/photographic illustrations
will be used & added to as communication art / graphics on the printed page or digital screen ?
i've always thought the way photography was taught either as a vocation or as an art missed these things and kind of left
the photographer hanging in the breeze wondering what to do next after they get their degree or certificate...

I've only known a dozen with degrees...from RIT, New Mexico, and Arizona. They became teachers etc. But I've known more who were both studio pros and photo fine artists. From that small sample I'd suggest that most who can do, don't teach. And that a few art-oriented photo courses accomplish more than do degrees.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

berkeley mike

do all your students / students that go through your program go on to be paid working photographers?
or do some of them do it because they want to become proficient, you know like CE / elective classes ?
the lions share of people i have known or met who took photography classes at a university, college &c
who were not in a MFA/BFA program did it as an elective course .. and very few of the people who weren't in
the MFA/BFA program went past 3 semesters, or on to jobs that had anything to do with photography ...
other than enjoying themselves, knowing how to compose an image, how to process film
( or get it processed by someone ) &c .. you know, scratching their photography itch ....do your classes
link up with graphic arts/commerical arts classes ( illustration, design &c ) or classes that might give the aspiring
commerical photographer the knowledge of how their product, architectural portrait photographs/photographic illustrations
will be used & added to as communication art / graphics on the printed page or digital screen ?
i've always thought the way photography was taught either as a vocation or as an art missed these things and kind of left
the photographer hanging in the breeze wondering what to do next after they get their degree or certificate...

Excellent question and perspective.

The program is supposed to be vocational. Leadership through 2014 failed to actually create and execute along those modalities and failed, also, to stay abreast of contemporary developments in technology. That leadership was incapable of managing both having experience in neither. The department was split 50-50 and I was subsequently appointed by 2 consecutive Presidents as I have both and significant community/organizational/counseling experience.

Building the program meant understanding not only our vocational mission and the needs of aspiring pros, but the needs of [people who simply want to enrich their photographic skills. That said, there are actually only 2 classes focus specifically on pro skills.

Foundational classes, both entry-level Intro to Dig and Intro to film, History of Photo, Photojournalism, Second-level Digital, and HDSLR benefit all types of shooters. Intro to Pro (220), Intermediate Pro (230), Advanced Pro (240), the "Pro" classes, have been seen as just that. There was significant feeling that the "Pro" designation was hindering enrollment in Intro (220). When I took on the Saturday 220 there was an average of 4 students. I promoted 220 in the lower division classes by saying, ignore the "Pro" designation.

Instead, I told them that all I wanted to do was make them better photographers. I introduced more advanced metering, color balance, studio lighting and gear, basic sets and set building, on-camera flash lighting, shooting on location, night shooting, processing and delivery. People not only got much better and more confident but, whether shooters wanted to be pros or not, they were ready for Intermediate Pro. What this does is allows shooters to drop into the program and get some of the things they want/need for a class or two. Or...continue on to more sophisticated shooting and business skills needed to make a buck.

It is huge fun and work at the same time.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

I've only known a dozen with degrees...from RIT, New Mexico, and Arizona. They became teachers etc. But I've known more who were both studio pros and photo fine artists. From that small sample I'd suggest that most who can do, don't teach. And that a few art-oriented photo courses accomplish more than do degrees.

In our case 3 of 6 faculty have "done" and teach, the others not so much. Guess how the department is divided....

 

[faberryman]

From that small sample I'd suggest that most who can do, don't teach.

Walker Evans, Minor White, and Gary Winogrand, just to name three off the top of my head, taught. I don't think it is a fair generalization to say that those who can do, don't teach.

 

[removed account4]

Walker Evans, Minor White, and Gary Winogrand, just to name three off the top of my head, taught. I don't think it is a fair generalization to say that those who can do, don't teach.

harry callahan, aaron siskind, maholy-nagy, abe morell, nick nixon kirk gittings ... just to name a few..
i think there are a fair amount of people who do and teach, lots of adjunct professors
in colleges and universities do both. there is a certain amount of satisfaction giving back
more than you got by showing others how to do things, and inspiring and opening minds to new things .

 

[MattKing]

I find that if I really want to learn how to do something well, then I need to set myself up to be able to teach it to someone else.
The clarity of thought that comes from having to share something is amazing.

 

[jtk]

Walker Evans, Minor White, and Gary Winogrand, just to name three off the top of my head, taught. I don't think it is a fair generalization to say that those who can do, don't teach.

I think teaching is rarely conducted by people who are fully competent when compared to genuine professional photographers of this (THIS) era. If I'm right it means a student needs to learn things the teacher doesn't know about. In Minor's case that means Ektachrome with studio strobe.

 

[jtk]

harry callahan, aaron siskind, maholy-nagy, abe morell, nick nixon kirk gittings ... just to name a few..
i think there are a fair amount of people who do and teach, lots of adjunct professors
in colleges and universities do both. there is a certain amount of satisfaction giving back
more than you got by showing others how to do things, and inspiring and opening minds to new things .

Time flies when a photographer steps away from the vitality of her/his rapidly changing photo era in order to dote on nostalgia, porn, street, or other photo hobbies. Time flies.

 

[Jim Jones]

I find that if I really want to learn how to do something well, then I need to set myself up to be able to teach it to someone else.
The clarity of thought that comes from having to share something is amazing.

Yes, indeed! The fewer the students and the closer you all can work together, the better the learning for both student and teacher.

 

[jtk]

I agree that mentors can be valuable but I think photo degrees are worthless. If someone wants a relevant degree for photo it would be film (ie video) or theatre or creative writing ...journalism degrees mean video, as does photojournalism where that's actually available.
I wasn't aware that anybody still remembered Brooks. BBC has a great program for citizens of the tenuously "United Kingdom"

 

[Berkeley Mike]

The degree is not an end in itself. For me its' real function is formatting an approach to photo, and being involved in a fertile community.

I learned out there on my own. It's tough. Few can do it. So...school helps.

 

[jtk]

Yes, indeed! The fewer the students and the closer you all can work together, the better the learning for both student and teacher.

Teacher/student is of course a potentially powerful learning relationship...but a recent degree in photography suggests someone had a lot of time on his hands...

 

[Berkeley Mike]

I am opening another thread on the topic of school of photography vs. trial by fire.

This is too good a topic to give short shrift.

 

[removed account4]

Nobody forced you into anything, you voluntarily stirred the pot back on post 765 and previous threads. Everyone else has a right to post their their opinion too, and I disagree with your statement. If that leads somewhere you don't like to go, the solution is simple.

91
92

 

[wyofilm]

I know this thread has drifted but this youtube vid includes an interview with Kodak Alaris exec towards the end. According to the man in the interview they have had double digit growth, year after year in film sales.

 

[Agulliver]

In many ways they are all the same woman. If you can't "stop loving someone" you don't love the current someone.

Tell that to someone who is polyamorous....and why does society have this toxic idea that we must shun our exes? Personally I'm still good friends with most of mine. One of my exes is my wife's best friend. And yes, they have compared notes...

Anyway....I definitely see more people around shooting film than a few years ago. Especially in the warmer months. This applies to England mostly. It will be interesting to see if I note any other film shooters in Malta next week. Last time I went there was said to be one shop on the island selling film. Now I note a traditional darkroom business has started there.