The comeback?

[Berkeley Mike]

Hmmm, cheaper, easier, more convenient. Sounds better to me. Plus, better quality (especially in high ISOs),

For me it is the immediacy, the sophistication of control in capture and development, less reliance on other services. Reduced cost is a byproduct of those factors, an added bonus. The direct adaptation of foundational principles of exposure (light capture: SS/f/ISO/color) from film to digital capture changes the role of film from foundational to circumstantial, simply one of many.

 

[warden]

Hang on to it: it may become collectable.

Oh I'll hang on to every bit of it. I use it all regularly and enjoy my time in the darkroom. My most recent digital camera (aside from my phone) is a Nikon D70 so I'm a bit behind the times there. I've thought about upgrading the digital but it's just not as much fun for me.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

I have a D70 donated to the department, hardly used. I spent an evening watching TV and running it through its paces.The D70 is a perfectly wonderful camera except for the small LCD screen.

 

[warden]

I have a D70 donated to the department, hardly used. I spent an evening watching TV and running it through its paces.The D70 is a perfectly wonderful camera except for the small LCD screen.

I agree, and have never had a complaint to make about it.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Hmmm, cheaper, easier, more convenient. Sounds better to me. Plus, better quality (especially in high ISOs),

That's great for you but I print in alt processes, such as carbon, kallitype, and gum. Better quality? Subjective... and just your opinion.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

That's great for you but I print in alt processes, such as carbon, kallitype, and gum. Better quality? Subjective... and just your opinion.

That said, how long will it take for our film-based/silver-based method will be considered an alternative process?

 

[faberryman]

That said, how long will it take for our film-based/silver-based method will be considered an alternative process?

Gelatin silver prints were considered an alternative process for the massive alternative process photography exhibit at the Lonsdale Gallery at the Photrio Symposium organized by Bob Carnie in Toronto this past summer. Surprising perhaps, but I think it reflects today's reality. Despite the posturing around here, how many members actually have a darkroom and regularly make wet prints.

 

[David Brown]

That said, how long will it take for our film-based/silver-based method will be considered an alternative process?

Depends on who you ask. I've been of that mind for a few years.

Gelatin silver prints were considered an alternative process for the massive alternative process photography exhibit at the Lonsdale Gallery at the Photrio Symposium organized by Bob Carnie in Toronto this past summer. Surprising perhaps, but I think it reflects today's reality. Despite the posturing around here, how many members actually have a darkroom and regularly make wet prints.

I do. (Also been on this forum for almost 15 years ...)

 

[faberryman]

I do. (Also been on this forum for almost 15 years ...)

I do too, but I can't tell you have many times I read posts from members who have haven't had a darkroom for years, if ever. And when it was still APUG, there was a special exemption from the no digital talk rule for scanning because that's what members were doing with their film.

 

[Sirius Glass]

That said, how long will it take for our film-based/silver-based method will be considered an alternative process?

So do I. Color too.

 

[jtk]

I have a D70 donated to the department, hardly used. I spent an evening watching TV and running it through its paces.The D70 is a perfectly wonderful camera except for the small LCD screen.

I've participated in B:&W inkjet exchanges sjnce D70 came out and it was obviously inferior to (for example) Pentax digital. Lower detail resolution, inferior ability to handle highlight detail etc. Pentax K20 D was vastly better than any of the early Nikons/Canons until Canon 5 II (Canon 5 wasn't equal).

 

[Berkeley Mike]

I hear you. I get these cameras donated to help students who can't afford cameras. I am struck with a lack of flexibility in many shooters who only want the very best. The D70 was wonderful for 4 subsequent students, 2 of which went on to buy their own, more contemporary, cameras.

 

[wyofilm]

how many members actually have a darkroom and regularly make wet prints.

I do.

 

[removed account4]

how many members actually have a darkroom and regularly make wet prints

does using the sun count ?
i make sunprints or cyanotypes regularly. i wash the cyanotypes in the darkroom .. and sun prints sometimes i fix them
most of the time i don't ... i shoot process film but haven't made anything but contact prints in a while ( and not often enough )

 

[jtk]

[QUOTE="Despite the posturing around here, how many members actually have a darkroom and regularly make wet prints.[/QUOTE]

I'm a photographer and a print maker. I develop film when that is especially useful, scanning that well (Nikon V). I'm a goodish inkjet printer (Canon Pro-10).

I rarely see examples of wet prints that rival the B&W inkjet prints in my print exchanges. I do admire the "wet prints" made by people who pursue platinum and other alt techniques.

One of the great things about inkjet printing is that if you make a small print and like it, all you have to do is insert larger paper ( tho some images want overall darkness tweaked). I currently print mostly 9X12" on 13X19" paper because the wide border sets the image off from the background.

There are many more fine paper alternatives for inkjet printing than there are for gelatin silver etc.

I like Canon's matte paper ( it may actually be Hahnemeule) and Ilford, but here's one excellent alternative: https://www.redrivercatalog.com/browse/fine-art-papers.html

Here's my usual vendor: https://www.itsupplies.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=supply

 

[jtk]

I hear you. I get these cameras donated to help students who can't afford cameras. I am struck with a lack of flexibility in many shooters who only want the very best. The D70 was wonderful for 4 subsequent students, 2 of which went on to buy their own, more contemporary, cameras.

Yes. I took off on a camera Vs camera rant there...I hate it when other people do that . Sorry. I have seen very fine work from D70s. The early Canons (20 something?) showed promise but I think Pentax hit a home run with K20D, which readily rivals most film. I think mirrorless does turn an important corner and doubt anybody's going to keep making DSLRs.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

I think mirrorless does turn an important corner and doubt anybody's going to keep making DSLRs.

The flipping mirror of SLRs solved a viewing preference; seeing from the perspective of the lens. Between that, the meter, and the what eye sees we could make interpretations and predictions of what we might capture. Mirrorless cameras and e-viewing now address the perspective part but new skills of interpretation of histograms and LCD views, just as we used to do with polaroid as a preview, must be learned.

 

[faberryman]

The flipping mirror of SLRs solved a viewing preference; seeing from the perspective of the lens. Between that, the meter, and the what eye sees we could make interpretations and predictions of what we might capture. Mirrorless cameras and e-viewing now address the perspective part but new skills of interpretation of histograms and LCD views, just as we used to do with polaroid as a preview, must be learned.

I use the same skills to frame and expose film as I do for mirrorless digital images. What are these new skills you refer too.

 

[MattKing]

I use the same skills to frame and expose film and I do for mirrorless digital images. What skills have I yet to learn?

Viewing perspective is the same as with (D)SLRs.
But with the mirrorless cameras, the viewing screens/electronic viewfinders give a very different presentation of what we see before we photograph compared to a prism and/or ground glass based system.
Just as I have to change and adapt when I try using a traditional view camera ground glass or make regular use of my waist level finder equipped cameras, I find I have to change and adapt when I use the back screen or electronic viewfinder on my new mirrorless.
So far, I get more predictable results with the older technology, but I have decades of using that technology behind me, while my mirrorless experience is less than a year old.

 

[faberryman]

Viewing perspective is the same as with (D)SLRs.
But with the mirrorless cameras, the viewing screens/electronic viewfinders give a very different presentation of what we see before we photograph compared to a prism and/or ground glass based system.
Just as I have to change and adapt when I try using a traditional view camera ground glass or make regular use of my waist level finder equipped cameras, I find I have to change and adapt when I use the back screen or electronic viewfinder on my new mirrorless.
So far, I get more predictable results with the older technology, but I have decades of using that technology behind me, while my mirrorless experience is less than a year old.

Perhaps I adapt easily. I do not find going back and forth between an SLR and mirrorless difficult. I have been using an SLR since 1973; I didn't take up digital until 2014.

 

[Berkeley Mike]

I use the same skills to frame and expose film as I do for mirrorless digital images. What are these new skills you refer too.

I don't recall thinking much past my meter and contrast for film. I got good predictable and printable stuff. On set I used to use Polaroid 664-665 mostly as a check that everything was working and a 2-d abstract that helped with composition. My digital workflow now includes LCD preview and histograms. Sometimes I'll import a file from the SDHC card while still on set, look at it in Lightroom, and then make fine adjustments in focus, exposure, color and Dof after previewing on my 27" iMac screen. It makes the original file pretty sweet and the results of further development more precise. It is akin to seeing a nice print of what one is shooting; why would one not use such a flow and skillset? Maybe people like to say, look ma, no hands. The only thing that matters is the result.

 

[jtk]

I use the same skills to frame and expose film as I do for mirrorless digital images. What are these new skills you refer too.

For me, mirrorless brings incredible light weight portability (far beyond any film camera or dslr) to extremely high image quality (detail, tones etc). And it brings previsualization back to the fore: I study the subject outside the camera, like I did with B&W LF, because my processing is integral to the result. Minor and Ansel would both like that. When I shot my beloved Ektachrome the job was done with a click but shooting digital the job is done in the darkroom (so to speak). I simplified my digital post-processing tremendously with Lightroom, and further with NIK.

If I was delivering files to clients my game would have to change, but I don't do that.

 

[Sirius Glass]

For me, mirrorless brings incredible light weight portability (far beyond any film camera or dslr) to extremely high image quality (detail, tones etc). And it brings previsualization back to the fore: I study the subject outside the camera, like I did with B&W LF, because my processing is integral to the result. Minor and Ansel would both like that. When I shot my beloved Ektachrome the job was done with a click but shooting digital the job is done in the darkroom (so to speak). I simplified my digital post-processing tremendously with Lightroom, and further with NIK.

If I was delivering files to clients my game would have to change, but I don't do that.

So this is a mirrorless camera too:

 

[jtk]

So this is a mirrorless camera too:

True, but it lacks today's excellent image stabilization, exquisite interchangable lenses, and incredibly precise autofocus including macro. And it weighs more than most mirrorless digital (but it's a better boat anchor).

 

[George Mann]

I can't imagine too many people excited about using a Nikon D1 except for nostalgic reasons.[/QUOTE]

The D1x holds its own against nearly all small format digital cameras available!