The comeback?

RPC · Jun 16, 2019

The internet will help keep analog photography alive for quite sometime, with or without a comeback. Search and discovery properties of the internet, inexpensive and easily accessible equipment sources such as ebay and others, and informational sites such as this, where analog is presented and revered, continue to experience growth, and will keep the young and old aware of analog photography and its virtues, despite opposing forces. Digital is largely in fashion for obvious reasons but with the help of the internet, analog, with its proven history will, for some time to come, be a viable and attractive alternative for those who take the time to learn and explore it. Analog has lasted longer than many predicted, and exposure of it on the internet is a powerful reason.

Berkeley Mike · Jun 17, 2019

That a culture of analogue support will survive on the internet is no doubt but the number of actual practitioners will decline. Being a "viable alternative" is a long way from a comeback. Vestige describes it better. Viability depends upon much more than the availability of gear. It requires the attitude to participate and maintain participation.

Ilford says that 30% of film users are under 35. The other 70% of "us" are the hard-core remnants of a large cadre of users of the only game in town. In our own experience from the time we were 35, how many gave film, even photography, up? How many of that 30% of young users will turn out to be hard-core film users? Young people experiment with lots of things and walk away from them. That 30% will definitely dwindle.

The currently normalized digital capture will succeed until the next technology is developed. Once that happens, increases in accessibility, speed, and quality will be exploited to surpass digital capture and processing. Rinse and repeat.

jtk · Jun 17, 2019

See "Black Mirror" episodes.

Berkeley Mike · Jun 17, 2019

Your point?

jtk · Jun 17, 2019

My point is that there's very little creativity in analog photography...game up... this isn't a matter of technology, it's a matter of where the creativity resides.

https://www.netflix.com/title/70264888

By the way, I'm a slow learner but I'm continually finding how beautifully Photoshop can be used in conjunction with pre visualization...in other words, I can see a scene or situation and render that, rather than being captive to an analog representation.

RPC · Jun 17, 2019

Not everyone defines creativity as manipulation with Photoshop. You can be creative simply by the images you capture. Thus, a good photographer can produce creative and quality images without the need of a computer and software and manipulation, but with proper use of traditional methods. That was proven long before the days of digital, is still appreciated by many today, and helps in keeping analog alive. Some, however seem to find it difficult without the use of digital tools. Fortunately for them, that method is available.

Berkeley Mike · Jun 17, 2019

Creativity exists independent of modality. Compute processes can be seen as development, just as darkroom development but with much less limitation.

faberryman · Jun 17, 2019

Berkeley Mike said:
Creativity exists independent of modality. Compute processes can be seen as development, just as darkroom development but with much less limitation.

He is just trying to stir up controversy. No need to respond to each of his provocations.

RPC · Jun 17, 2019

faberryman said:
He is just trying to stir up controversy. No need to respond to each of his provocations.

You have it wrong. It is clear that continued attempts have been made by some in this thread to show that the demise of analog is a sure thing and desired. That is what stirs up controversy and forces opposing viewpoints to be posted. Otherwise, not.

This thread was recently brought back from the dead by one of those to once again proclaim doom and gloom for analog.

awty · Jun 17, 2019

jtk said:
My point is that there's very little creativity in analog photography...game up... this isn't a matter of technology, it's a matter of where the creativity resides.

https://www.netflix.com/title/70264888

By the way, I'm a slow learner but I'm continually finding how beautifully Photoshop can be used in conjunction with pre visualization...in other words, I can see a scene or situation and render that, rather than being captive to an analog representation.

PS is just a tool and its not about the tool but how you use it (anyway thats what the missus says). A tool is not going to make you more creative, just more productive, you first need to be creative. You can train a creative person to use PS and they can do wonderful things, but just hashing buttons or following you tube instructions isn't necessarily being very creative. Creative people can make things out of little or nothing. I would concentrate on being creative and worry about tools and techniques later.

warden · Jun 17, 2019

Berkeley Mike said:
I think, rather, of a new stasis and not recovery or growth. Given the rate of "boomers" disappearing along with their film disciplines and the statistically lower infill from generations that follow, it would be no surprise to see that stasis could readjust downward in the next decade.

So I guess you decided this thread needed to be dug up again. Ok.

Ste_S · Jun 18, 2019

Berkeley Mike said:
The currently normalized digital capture will succeed until the next technology is developed

I think that's already happening. Phones (and computational photography) are steadily killing stand alone digital camera sales and encroaching further into the market each year.
I know I just use my phone now for digital photography, however I increasingly use film for personal projects. I can easily see a future where analogue photography co-exists with phone/computational photography, in much the same way vinyl exists with music streaming services currently.

eddie · Jun 18, 2019

I'm not buying the demise of analog (which has been touted for a few decades already). There will always be people who need a more intimate relationship with their creative pursuits. Ease isn't a factor in their choices. Hand crafting one's artistic endeavors is a powerful draw for many people.
As for those who claim analog is over, it's just a way to justify their own decisions to abandon it. Digital is neither superior to, or lesser than, analog.

jtk · Jun 18, 2019

awty said:
PS is just a tool and its not about the tool but how you use it (anyway thats what the missus says). A tool is not going to make you more creative, just more productive, you first need to be creative. You can train a creative person to use PS and they can do wonderful things, but just hashing buttons or following you tube instructions isn't necessarily being very creative. Creative people can make things out of little or nothing. I would concentrate on being creative and worry about tools and techniques later.

PS and the like are easy ...fear and ignorance are obstacles. Nobody is "creative" in only one venue. Picasso and Alan Ginsberg made photos. I printed Ciba and Ektacolor, did point source and pin registration, processed thousand rolls of Ektachrome...and LOTS of B&W...and remain "creative" mostly thanks to upbringing and women. I don't accept that hobbiests are characteristically creative.

Nobody cares what a photographer "would" do...does Photrio Media demonstrate much "creativity"?

eddie · Jun 18, 2019

jtk said:
does Photrio Media demonstrate much "creativity"?

I see a lot of creative work here ( although I think there was more before it became Photrio- we lost a lot of talent to the change). I also don’t know why you constantly feel the need to demean the work posted. Your work doesn’t exhibit any of the exceptional qualities you seem to find lacking.

jtk · Jun 18, 2019

faberryman said:
He is just trying to stir up controversy. No need to respond to each of his provocations.

Why was it necessary to demean Berkeley Mike?

RPC · Jun 18, 2019

jtk said:
Nobody cares what a photographer "would" do...does Photrio Media demonstrate much "creativity"?

So are you implying the members here, to produce more creative photos, should manipulate their images more with PS instead of improving their shooting skills?

Kino · Jun 18, 2019

jtk said:
PS and the like are easy ...fear and ignorance are obstacles.

Yes, decry someone else's preferences as "fear and ignorance"; no one can possibly prefer a working method outside of endless digital manipulation without being a Luddite.

Good luck with that...

jtk · Jun 18, 2019

RPC said:
So are you implying the members here, to produce more creative photos, should manipulate their images more with PS instead of improving their shooting skills?

I'm not implying anything and I almost never use the word "should."

jtk · Jun 18, 2019

eddie said:
I see a lot of creative work here ( although I think there was more before it became Photrio- we lost a lot of talent to the change). I also don’t know why you constantly feel the need to demean the work posted. Your work doesn’t exhibit any of the exceptional qualities you seem to find lacking.

I almost never say anything negative about individual Media photos. You rarely say anything meaningful about them. If I post I virtually always do it to praise.

Your whining about the past only takes away from whatever you might contribute...if you were able.

jtk · Jun 18, 2019

Kino said:
Yes, decry someone else's preferences as "fear and ignorance"; no one can possibly prefer a working method outside of endless digital manipulation without being a Luddite.

Good luck with that...

Your hysteria doesn't help. If you had some kind of point you would express it. Make your own points...I don't want to help you with that.

Kino · Jun 18, 2019

Pot, meet kettle...

awty · Jun 18, 2019

jtk said:
PS and the like are easy ...fear and ignorance are obstacles. Nobody is "creative" in only one venue. Picasso and Alan Ginsberg made photos. I printed Ciba and Ektacolor, did point source and pin registration, processed thousand rolls of Ektachrome...and LOTS of B&W...and remain "creative" mostly thanks to upbringing and women. I don't accept that hobbiests are characteristically creative.

Nobody cares what a photographer "would" do...does Photrio Media demonstrate much "creativity"?

Yes people who are creative are often creative in many venues. Using PS doesnt make you any more creative than someone thinking that using a Leica M is going to allow you to take pictures like HCB or any other of those idolized photographers. To do film editing like in the link provided, agencies work with schools and run work experience programs, much the same way as they have sporting programs, kids start at 13 and if they have a talent they are snapped up. A 25 year old film editor can have 12 years experience. Photoshop hobbyist are no different to film hobbyist, just that they have a back button. I can visualize in 2 and 3 dimension, can add emotion and atmosphere all in a moment or sometimes months in the making, cant every one? Unfortunately I lack the skills to put it on paper, no different to using PS, just that Im happier to use my hands than a mouse. Someone told me a while ago that you can take 20 photographers out to take a photo, but only one will be capable of making it into a picture and you cant teach the others how to, its something you have to be born with. What he didn't tell was that a few of them will think that they can.......and thats all good as long as your enjoying your self. Ive been working at it for a few years, I expect to take 5-10 years to show any competency, maybe I will maybe I wont. I dont ever call myself an artist or creative, others do, when I see it I will believe it.

BTW I think its great people putting up their pictures again in the media section, we should encourage not discourage.

jtk · Jun 18, 2019

Kino said:
Yes, decry someone else's preferences as "fear and ignorance"; no one can possibly prefer a working method outside of endless digital manipulation without being a Luddite.

Good luck with that...

Note that I never "decry someone else's preferences" ... I referred only to the fear and ignorance that prevents direct experience.

jtk · Jun 18, 2019

The comeback?

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