The analog to digital trap, no... you can't run before you walk..

[Sean]

Instruction manual? I don't need no stinkin' manual, I've been shooting photos for eons how different can it be!? Well, I've finally crashed out now and realised I don't actually know what the heck I'm doing in this digital realm, regardless of how many analog years I have under my belt. I've ignored too much and am now forcing myself to slam the brakes and face the reality ..I'm a newbie again. It means being honest with myself and taking on the learning curve, as there is no real way around it if you want to achieve your end goals.

The relationship between camera settings and editing tool settings is not to be trifled with (I underestimated this big time). It is VAST, highly symbiotic and unforgiving, which I have ignored for too long, in a typical 'don't have time for this, just shoot and move a few sliders' and be done. This has caused me more harm than good and it has finally come to a head. I must get my head around this and obtain a deep understanding of it all.

So where to from here? I basically wiped my Fujifilm x100vi settings and started rebuilding them from scratch, relying on the advice of pro users and a bit of back and forth with various ais. I am running Capture One and also started rebuilding my configs there from scratch, based on the same interactions. I have uncovered numerous settings that were way way off both on the camera, in capture one and when the two are combined. For example 'your x100vi baselines are x,y,z and these settings in capture one are going against them and causing issues'.

It's not nice to feel like you're starting over, a newbie with a long journey ahead, but it is getting easier by the day. I will surely need to re-visit some old RAW files and do right by them.

So, my advice to those incorporating digital, do a lot of crawling first and save yourself some pain.

 

[runswithsizzers]

Your comment, "the relationship between camera settings and editing tool settings" is "VAST, highly symbiotic and unforgiving" is somewhat puzzling to me. I would be curious to know more details about what you consider to be the most significant stumbling blocks, whether with your Fujifilm x100vi settings or with Capture One.

When I got my first digital camera, I do remember being overwhelmed by the complexity of the menus and the large number of settings. At that time, I was shooting JPGs (only). I also remember having difficulty getting the colors and white balance right, avoiding blown highlights, banding, etc. The only solution seemed to be switching back and forth between various camera settings, depending on the light conditions.

Later, I switched to shooting RAW (only). For me, it was much easier to set the camera for a very basic capture, and concentrate on doing all the fine adjustments in Lightroom. I think those who want finished JPGs straight out of the camera are going to have to fool around with various camera settings a lot more than those of us who prefer to shoot RAW and then make final adjustments on a computer.

Now I am using a Fuji XT-1, and I rarely, if ever, bother with changing the camera settings for White Balance, Film simulations, etc. because it is easier to make those adjustments in Lightroom. All the camera settings for sharpness, noise reduction, shadows and highlights, etc. I leave set to the default or the lowest settings. Again, those settings affect the JPG, only -- and I have a lot more control over those adjustments when editing the RAW in Lightroom. I use the dials on my XT-1 to change Aperture, ISO, and Exposure Compensation. (I love those dials!) I usually let the camera set my shutter speed. All the other many camera settings are mostly "set it and forget it" so I rarely need to go into the camera menus.

In about 2000 I started digitizing forty years worth of slides, so by the time I got my first digital camera in 2010, I had already been using digital darkroom for ten years. It worked out to my advantage that I did not have to overcome the learning curves for both post processing software and for a digital camera at the same time.

I started learned post-processing on Photoshop, but soon switched to Adobe Elements. Elements was said to be easier to use than Photoshop -- but I remember Elements as being very frustrating to learn. In 2017 I switched to Adobe Lightroom -- another struggle for the first year -- but now I really like it. I have never tried to use Capture One, but I have seen a lot of posts by users who are having difficulties figuring it out. Either way, someone who is just starting out with photo editing software should be prepared to spend a lot of time learning how to use it. I don't know any substitute for spending time alternating between banging your head on your computer desk and searching for answers to your questions. But hang in there, it does get easier with time.

 

[Cholentpot]

I started on film way back when it was as dead as can be. Putting Tmax 400 through a Lubitel 2, after a half dozen rolls I got a used mid range DSLR and lightroom. I learned the basics of everything on the digital while still shooting film on the side. I now shoot digital for work and film for everything else. Learning digital and film at the same time had crossover skills and some there were very specific. I'm still learning after more than a decade of shooting daily.

 

[Carnie Bob]

Instruction manual? I don't need no stinkin' manual, I've been shooting photos for eons how different can it be!? Well, I've finally crashed out now and realised I don't actually know what the heck I'm doing in this digital realm, regardless of how many analog years I have under my belt. I've ignored too much and am now forcing myself to slam the brakes and face the reality ..I'm a newbie again. It means being honest with myself and taking on the learning curve, as there is no real way around it if you want to achieve your end goals.

The relationship between camera settings and editing tool settings is not to be trifled with (I underestimated this big time). It is VAST, highly symbiotic and unforgiving, which I have ignored for too long, in a typical 'don't have time for this, just shoot and move a few sliders' and be done. This has caused me more harm than good and it has finally come to a head. I must get my head around this and obtain a deep understanding of it all.

So where to from here? I basically wiped my Fujifilm x100vi settings and started rebuilding them from scratch, relying on the advice of pro users and a bit of back and forth with various ais. I am running Capture One and also started rebuilding my configs there from scratch, based on the same interactions. I have uncovered numerous settings that were way way off both on the camera, in capture one and when the two are combined. For example 'your x100vi baselines are x,y,z and these settings in capture one are going against them and causing issues'.

It's not nice to feel like you're starting over, a newbie with a long journey ahead, but it is getting easier by the day. I will surely need to re-visit some old RAW files and do right by them.

So, my advice to those incorporating digital, do a lot of crawling first and save yourself some pain.

you are a smart guy I am sure you will figure it out, there are good resources for questions , I would advise to start with Photrio.

 

[koraks]

I would advise to start with Photrio.

LOL well played, sir!

 

[loccdor]

RAW with most processing turned off/low as well as some underexposure dialed in seemed to work pretty well for me as someone used to working with film.

 

[Sean]

Your comment, "the relationship between camera settings and editing tool settings" is "VAST, highly symbiotic and unforgiving" is somewhat puzzling to me. I would be curious to know more details about what you consider to be the most significant stumbling blocks, whether with your Fujifilm x100vi settings or with Capture One.

When I got my first digital camera, I do remember being overwhelmed by the complexity of the menus and the large number of settings. At that time, I was shooting JPGs (only). I also remember having difficulty getting the colors and white balance right, avoiding blown highlights, banding, etc. The only solution seemed to be switching back and forth between various camera settings, depending on the light conditions.

Later, I switched to shooting RAW (only). For me, it was much easier to set the camera for a very basic capture, and concentrate on doing all the fine adjustments in Lightroom. I think those who want finished JPGs straight out of the camera are going to have to fool around with various camera settings a lot more than those of us who prefer to shoot RAW and then making adjustments on a computer.

Now I am using a Fuji XT-1, and I rarely, if ever, bother with changing the camera settings for White Balance, Film simulations, etc. because it is easier to make those adjustments in Lightroom. All the camera settings for sharpness, noise reduction, shadows and highlights, etc. I leave set to the default or the lowest settings. Again, those settings affect the JPG, only -- and I have a lot more control over those adjustments when editing the RAW in Lightroom. I use the dials on my XT-1 to change Aperture, ISO, and Exposure Compensation. (I love those dials!) I usually let the camera set my shutter speed. All the other many camera settings are mostly "set it and forget it" so I rarely need to go into the camera menus.

In about 2000 I started digitizing forty years worth of slides, so by the time I got my first digital camera in 2010, I had already been using digital darkroom for ten years. It worked out to my advantage that I did not have to overcome the learning curves for both post processing software and for a digital camera at the same time.

I started learned post-processing on Photoshop, but soon switched to Adobe Elements. Elements was said to be easier to use than Photoshop -- but I remember Elements as being very frustrating to learn. In 2017 I switched to Adobe Lightroom -- another struggle for the first year -- but now I really like it. I have never tried to use Capture One, but I have seen a lot of posts by users who are having difficulties figuring it out. Either way, someone who is just starting out with photo editing software should be prepared to spend a lot of time learning how to use it. I don't know any substitute for spending time alternating between banging your head on your computer desk and searching for answers to your questions. But hang in there, it does get easier with time.

I've been shooting RAW and think what eventually caught me out was not realising the dance between the x100vi settings and capture one inbuilt automation on imported files. I also set things up on the cam via an earlier guide that turned out to be less than ideal, and that with capture one automatically blowing out various settings (sharpening), hdr issues, curve issues, base characteristics settings. The heavier misconfigs were definitely on the capture one side. I am taking my time there now to really dig into optimal configurations. I need to get a solid workflow going with some core style settings then further adjustments plan based on the image. Testing some images today, things are improving.

 

[Sean]

you are a smart guy I am sure you will figure it out, there are good resources for questions , I would advise to start with Photrio.

 

[runswithsizzers]

I've been shooting RAW and think what eventually caught me out was not realising the dance between the x100vi settings and capture one inbuilt automation on imported files. I also set things up on the cam via an earlier guide that turned out to be less than ideal, and that with capture one automatically blowing out various settings (sharpening), hdr issues, curve issues, base characteristics settings.

Normally, most camera setting of this type do not affect the RAW in any way. Unless Capture One is somehow importing the camera settings and then applying them to the RAW at the time of import? If true, I assume you can modify this behavior with some kind of import preset?

When importing a Fuji RAF file, I believe the only camera setting honored by default in Adobe Lightroom Classic is the film simulation(?) But I guess every editing software has its own rules about what camera settings to honor, and which ones to ignore. Of course, strictly speaking, the RAW file always remains unedited, and any edits applied to the RAW should be reversable -- though perhaps not easily found?

 

[MurrayMinchin]

I hesitate to say I'm comfortable with Fuji X-T2 RAW files and Capture One because I don't know what I don't know, but seem to have a fairly good working relationship going.

Capture One's short tutorial videos help when some new challenge presents itself: https://support.captureone.com/hc/en-us/sections/8039132613405-Tutorials

My favourite gosh-golly feature is using colour sliders on a colour RAW photo while in B&W mode.

 

[MattKing]

you are a smart guy I am sure you will figure it out, there are good resources for questions , I would advise to start with Photrio.

Just be sure not to get on the wrong side of the Moderators there........

 

[Sirius Glass]

Only recently started using digital photography. At first I only learned about how to operate the camera and now I am slowly working with LightRoom and PhotoShop.

 

[Sean]

I spent considerable time today trying to build the foundations of a good 'street photo' workflow RAW/Capture One. I feel like I learned a fair bit but still have a way to go. This was about 3hrs of learning on a test shot from earlier today. More about digging into the software and methodically editing according to some workflow advice. I pooled advice, techniques from various humans and some ai interaction to help me 'find' things a bit more efficiently. Below is the "before" raw file and next is the after. I probably dove into at least 5 areas I had not before.

A Dubrovnik street cat, I'm on a 2017 macbook pro/retina while we travel, so can't say for sure these would hold up on a calibrated screen.

Open to any feedback thanks!


Before (RAW)

After:

 

[Carnie Bob]

One thing that I have found from colour printing for others and I think it applies to enlarger and digital... first get the right density, second balance your colour, third adjust your contrast... everything else you learn what you need to know

 

[Cholentpot]

I also disagree with the shoot under/over exposure crowd. Get it right in camera, don't shoot for the RAW. If the shot needs some tweaks fine. If I have to go full photoshop wizard on my photo I've missed the shot.

 

[xkaes]

Film and digital have one thing in common. You can make it as simple or as complicated as you want. Most film users set the camera on "AUTO" or whatever, and send the film someplace for processing and prints. For most digital camera users it's exactly the same, although the film is now a media card with files, instead of images in gelatin.

If you want to get more involved -- like processing your own film or files -- you can do it, of course -- and that can be as simple or as complicated as you want it to be. Then send off the film or files for printing. Still, pretty much no difference.

And if you want to do the printing yourself, that's another step -- just somewhat different if you have film or files -- but basically the same, except with one you can keep the lights ON.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I spent considerable time today trying to build the foundations of a good 'street photo' workflow RAW/Capture One. I feel like I learned a fair bit but still have a way to go. This was about 3hrs of learning on a test shot from earlier today. More about digging into the software and methodically editing according to some workflow advice. I pooled advice, techniques from various humans and some ai interaction to help me 'find' things a bit more efficiently. Below is the "before" raw file and next is the after. I probably dove into at least 5 areas I had not before.

A Dubrovnik street cat, I'm on a 2017 macbook pro/retina while we travel, so can't say for sure these would hold up on a calibrated screen.

Open to any feedback thanks!


Before (RAW)

View attachment 414132

After:

View attachment 414133

Sean: Here' is your adjusted picture and my further adjusted picture. Note that your adjusted picture is too dark. You don;t have to worry about the monitor not showing it right. Check and use the histogram and notice teh data is too far to the left. I adjusted the white point level moving it to the left (from 255 to 196) and brightening the picture, all without needing a calibrated monitor.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Sean: Note that instead of manually adjusting the levels (white and black points), I could have used the eyedroppers or used Auto and the level would have been adjusted automatically. This program is Photoshop Elements 2020.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Here are adjustments using tyour first unadjusted image that was really too far to the left (underexposed probably by one or two stops when shot).

 

[koraks]

. Note that your adjusted picture is too dark.

No it's not, and you've blown out the highlights on the fur. Rookie mistake, but not the first time I see you do the exact same thing. There was an identical incident some time ago when you argued "too dark" and then maimed the photo. Honestly, you killed that cat. It's *yuck* now.

Also, you state as if with authority that it's too dark; it really isn't. It's @Sean's photo; it's his interpretation of the scene. There's no objective right or wrong (although the blown highlights are an objective fact alright). Personally I really like the toning on his version. Both of your edits look crude, mundane and unpleasant to me. @Sean's version I'd print; yours I'd dump into the digital garbage can.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Here is same process except using Auto levels adjust. I always set level adjustments before brightness and contrast adjustments that I often don't subsequently need.

 

[Sean]

Some of these cats with white fur are definitely a struggle in Croatian daylight, it really wants to blow out..

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

No it's not, and you've blown out the highlights on the fur. Rookie mistake, but not the first time I see you do the exact same thing. There was an identical incident some time ago when you argued "too dark" and then maimed the photo. Honestly, you killed that cat. It's *yuck* now.

Also, you state as if with authority that it's too dark; it really isn't. It's @Sean's photo; it's his interpretation of the scene. There's no objective right or wrong (although the blown highlights are an objective fact alright). Personally I really like the toning on his version. Both of your edits look crude, mundane and unpleasant to me. @Sean's version I'd print; yours I'd dump into the digital garbage can.

I didn't check too closely but clipping can be eliminated by moving the level (white point) less to the left. The issue that Sean asked about is whether photographer can do these things on the road with an uncalibrated monitor, which is Sean's issue as he stated. Also, Sean acknowledged that the picture might be too dark or light and was not his aesthetic interpretation. So it was objectively wrong. The photo was underexposed.

 

[koraks]

Alright, I see. Very insightful. Learn something new every day.

 

[MurrayMinchin]

Blown highlights and blocked up shadow warnings (can be toggled on & off)