Test of Rollei Retro 100 Tonal against AGFA APX100

[sandermarijn]

I think I like this film

Robert was kind enough to send me three Retro 100 Tonal 135 films that he is also selling in Dead Link Removed now (also in 120). Thanks a lot!

I tried one in my Contax G1 with the 28mm and a light yellow filter; the sky was heavily overcast. Unaware of the no-go of Rodinal and tap water I did indeed get spots all over.

Ignoring the spots and judging from scans and naked eye inspection, I find this a very nice film: excellent tonality and sharpness (in Rodinal 1+25), nice grain (reminiscent of APX100, to me at least).
I also like the film's flatness, both longitudinally and across the width, and its transparency- it has a very clear base.

My film (this is 135, not 120) had a light leak into the first frame. Apparently the little black 'cloth' that seals off the cassette wasn't tight enough. I did not keep the cassette in bright sunlight, so this is a bit disconcerting. The darkroom was pitch-dark during loading, certainly no problem there. Maybe this is an isolated problem with this one film.

I am curious after the 120 version. Having some doubts also. Rodinal being my primary and most-loved developer I won't like having to use demi-water all the time; it's expensive (1 euro/litre in Holland) and fussy.
Also, I don't like the slightest risk of light leaks because of backing paper being not tight enough. I know this is 100% pilot error, but I am not always a good pilot and mistakes we all make now and then. Rather no risks there.

I'll probably get some from Robert though. If only to have tried ;-)

Some samples from today (Contax G1, 28mm, yellow filter, Rodinal 1+25, 8 minutes at 20 deg. C, inversion 1st 30s continuous, then two inversions at the start of each minute).

This is not a scientific test of sharpness or grain or whatever, just sharing impressions. Overall, I like this film.

[Samples attached in the next post. For some reason my links to the images don't work.]

 

[sandermarijn]

Some samples and an unsharpened crop with the *avoidable* white spots.

 

[RobertV]

I won't like having to use demi-water all the time;

You have a lot of different water:

R.O. water, reverse osmose (made by an-kation and UV light equipment)
Demi water, simple an-kation filter (Britta)
Destilled water (via a destillation column)

You can also make your photo water yourself: Cook it for three minutes put the film carbonates away and let it cool down. In 90% enough for photo water. Less carbonates and almost no oxygen left.
When you are using a Britta (TM) filter it's even much, much better, no iron, magnesium etc.

You can also use this: Ultra pure water

 

[sandermarijn]

"Diese sind erfahrungsgemäss weitestgehend zu vermeiden,
wenn die Entwickler mit Ansatzwasser/dest. Wasser angesetzt werden - wenn eine evtl. Vorwässerung
ebenfalls mit einem Doseninhalt dest. Wasser, nicht Leitungswasser, erfolgt."

Now that I think about it, this will be almost impossible or very annoying and expensive at the very least.

I always pre-wash the developing tank with film inside, in order to temper it. This is almost always necessary, as the temperature in my upstairs darkroom is only in the 19-21 deg C range for maybe two months a year. In summer it's generally too hot (25-30), in winter too cold (13-16).

But if -in the case of Rodinal- I have to temper the tank with distilled/demi water then I will have to bring this distilled water to 20 deg C first. That's time-consuming.

Also, this means having to use 2x 600ml of demi water for one 120 film. That's more than a euro per film. Of course I could re-use the tempering water, but still not very cheap as I only use one-shot developers.

I will have to give this some thought before continuing with Retro Tonal.

People inside Holland (Dutch people that is), is there a place to get demi water cheaper than around 1 euro/litre? That's what the DIY-stores charge for their 'accu-water'. Larger canisters anywhere, maybe?

 

[sandermarijn]

You can also use this: Ultra pure water

I'll ask the guys at Gamma for one of those.

Seriously, where do Dutch amateurs like me get their demi-water for little?

I know that the cost of demi-water is only a small part of the bigger picture (film, camera, paper, chemicals, hardware, etc), but still, I don't like paying what seems like too much.

 

[Q.G.]

I use tap water, both to mix chemicals and to wash film in, and never had white calcium spots on film.
I haven't tried Maco film, yet.

But doesn't that point towards a cheap way to avoid the avoidable spots?
Not use Maco film?

 

[sandermarijn]

But doesn't that point towards a cheap way to avoid the avoidable spots?
Not use Maco film?

No. Maco film is like a good wine. You'd rather abstain?

 

[Q.G.]

No. Maco film is like a good wine. You'd rather abstain?

Ah, but is it the only good wine?

You were looking for a way round the expensive water problem. There it is.

 

[clayne]

Clayne: They ere definitely not blown. Left side is light leak. You are judging a small jpg. Its information in the highlights. In a wetprint i can be printed from black to paper white if so is requested.

The whites are glowing across the entire frame. I'd say they're definitely near the edge of being over-developed. If you don't want us to judge things based off of a "small" 1600x1500 (that's small?) jpg, then don't post a jpeg. Make a print and scan that. Otherwise you're going to have people judging the results based off of the images that you post.

I don't understand what you want from people here. You post something, people point something out and you react combatively.

 

[kompressor]

But i know when my higlights are blown, with purpose or not

 

[kossi008]

The answer is a simple "no" for me. I'm waiting for the Adox clone that should be identical to APX100, and I understand that the Tonal is different. So I will look at Tonal only if the Adox option should evaporate...

 

[RobertV]

Retro 100 TONAL (Rollei) E.I. 80 in AM74 1+9. During a 4x5" shoot with Eddie from N.Y.C.
My hometown Ravenstein, 667 Bessa III.

 

[RobertV]

And the pre-liminary Retro 100 TONAL data sheet:

 

[JPD]

And the pre-liminary Retro 100 TONAL data sheet:

Interesting! The text needs to grammatically corrected here and there, but is readable. What was the film called when sold by Agfa?

 

[RobertV]

Interesting! The text needs to grammatically corrected here and there, but is readable. What was the film called when sold by Agfa?

Yes a few mistakes which will be corrected later.

The Tonal film is a first production by Agfa. In 2002 this emulsion was made by Efke. The recept is from the Maco company.

 

[AgX]

But no of the graphics look like being from Agfa...

 

[RobertV]

Last revision:

 

[Роберт]

Lidl, Metro/Makro, DIY Brita (TM) filter Maxtra system.