Taylor Hobson / Cooke timeline

[16:9]

I'm working on a better serial number guide and master timeline for the first century of Taylor-Hobson and Cooke lenses. CameraWiki repeats Vade Mecum's sketchy offering, but it seems to make a few major mis-steps, despite being so brief.

Based on serials we've collected, and information harvested from the current Cooke Compendium (which seems to be a dumbed-down version of Barabara Lowry's original 2018 pages - now apparently lost), I have a much more substantial and useful guide that will be freely published at Delta, but I still have many gaps. Can you help?

Three things would be helpful:

1. To post (or send me privately if under copyright) Taylor Hobson or Cooke catalogues or manufacturer information. I'll update the thread with a list of material gathered so you can see where we have gaps. To clarify this point – there's already a lot of material online, but the majority focuses on early 20th century taking lenses. What's thin on the ground is information from 1950-1980. In particular, I'm looking for technical information and brochures for TH enlarger and projector lenses.

2. To post any pictures - but definitely serials - of any Taylor-Hobson or Cooke lenses you own

3. If you're local to Beverly Hills, and keen to learn about the company, pay a visit to the Margaret Herrick archives that contain material transferred away from Leicester in 2021. There will be questions . . . for instance, the first 50 years of production seems not to have a contiguous chronological system. Or does it?

It's a great shame that the work of such an important maker is under-publicised. Vey few companies have a continuous tradition of cutting edge lens manufacture for 130 years. Zeiss, Nikon and Leica have gone to great lengths to tell their own stories and preserve their heritage, but most makers of long standing seem to have little interest in their own past, frittering away their archives. That England ever produced a manufacturer of such stature is still unknown to most photographers.
_________________

 

[Dan Fromm]

Why not copy from A Lens Collector's Vade Mecum and P-H Pont's Les Chiffres Cles?

 

[16:9]

Why not copy from A Lens Collector's Vade Mecum and P-H Pont's Les Chiffres Cles?

Pont doesn't catalogue Taylor Hobson, and (as I said) Vade Mecum offers a bare-bones outline that is incorrect in the few data points it presents as 'guesses;.

 

[Tel]

I have a very old TTH lens that came on a view camera bought in an auction. The lens was wrapped in the old style cloth electrical tape--mummified if you will--and I've never been able to find information about this particular one. I've looked through my copies of old BJP annuals for any info and come up empty. There is lettering around the rim of the front element that reads: "Taylor Taylor Hobson Ltd., New York & London" but is almost totally obscured by old paint.

 

[cowanw]

That appears to be a Series III
See

https://antiquecameras.net/images/cooke_lenses_1912.pdf

 

[16:9]

Series III was in production from 1897-1923. Yours may date to around 1911. Thanks for showing it.

 

[gorbas]

16:9, Did you read story from, let's say mid 90's, of current owner trying to buy Cooke company from Rank Xerox? Most likely it was "reprinted" article on their website from American Cinematographer magazine. He had very hard time proving to them that they actually do own Cooke company. I'm not surprised that serial # and lots of history is lost.
Will send you a few pictures when I have a chance. Good luck!

 

[Dan Fromm]

Pont doesn't catalogue Taylor Hobson,

See p. 67 of the 3d edition.

 

[16:9]

Thanks for that, Dan. It would be a relief to compare notes - evidently TH was in the upgrade to Ed. 3! Perhaps the second (64-page?) edition has mistakenly been added to this eBay auction for the 3rd (98-page?) edition.

les CHIFFRES CLES - 3ème édition (objectifs, obturateurs) - Patrice-Hervé PONT | eBay

Les meilleures offres pour les CHIFFRES CLES - 3ème édition (objectifs, obturateurs) - Patrice-Hervé PONT sont sur eBay ✓ Comparez les prix et les spécificités des produits neufs et d'occasion ✓ Pleins d'articles en livraison gratuite!

www.befr.ebay.be

Tough book to find: out of print, out of stock, and not yet found a 3rd edition for sale used. Shame - it would be helpful. If I can't track down a copy of the later edition would you be willing to PM me a snap of p67?

 

[Ian Grant]

16:9, Did you read story from, let's say mid 90's, of current owner trying to buy Cooke company from Rank Xerox? Most likely it was "reprinted" article on their website from American Cinematographer magazine. He had very hard time proving to them that they actually do own Cooke company. I'm not surprised that serial # and lots of history is lost.
Will send you a few pictures when I have a chance. Good luck!

The Rank Organisation owned Taylor, Taylor, & Hobson. Cooke as a company didn't exist until T.T & H spun off their optical division which then became Cooke Optics. T.T. & H still exist as Taylor Hobson making surface measurement equipment, for the optical and other industries.

Rank Xerox was a subdivision of the Rank Organisation and separate to T.T. & H. Rank also owned Aldis and at least one other lens manufacturer.

Companies like Beck changed ownership & name, but lenses are made again and sold under the Beck name, there's another old company still making lenses in North Wales, I'll remember the name later. It's often forgotten that lenses are used in many different industries, and particularly for military use, and this is where these smaller companies specialise.

Ian

 

[Tel]

16:9, Did you read story from, let's say mid 90's, of current owner trying to buy Cooke company from Rank Xerox? Most likely it was "reprinted" article on their website from American Cinematographer magazine. He had very hard time proving to them that they actually do own Cooke company.

That was Les Zellan, a classmate of mine from graduate school. I last crossed paths with him at a trade show back around the time he was negotiating the purchase of Cooke. It makes for an interesting story; he went door-to-door contacting the employees, asking them not to find other jobs because he was planning to reopen the company. Allegedly, Rank were putting the assets up for auction (i.e., scrap value).

 

[Tel]

That appears to be a Series III
See

https://antiquecameras.net/images/cooke_lenses_1912.pdf

Yes, if you look closely at the markings on the front face it says "Series III" but I haven't seen a series III with that wide front face--all the examples I've found (like the one in the catalog) have a much narrover body with the f-stop markings on the side rather than the front. Does that make sense? Is this some odd variant?

 

[gorbas]

That was Les Zellan, a classmate of mine from graduate school. I last crossed paths with him at a trade show back around the time he was negotiating the purchase of Cooke. It makes for an interesting story; he went door-to-door contacting the employees, asking them not to find other jobs because he was planning to reopen the company. Allegedly, Rank were putting the assets up for auction (i.e., scrap value).

Thank you Tel! Unfortunately I did not remember Les Zellan name. What he did with Cooke company in early 2000s and later was remarkable achievement.
Ian, I own 2 lenses, both 8 1/4" - 210mm most likely from photocopiers and all those names are there. There is one with Xerox-Rank markings.

 

[Tel]

Thank you Tel! Unfortunately I did not remember Les Zellan name. What he did with Cooke company in early 2000s and later was remarkable achievement.
Ian, I own 2 lenses, both 8 1/4" - 210mm most likely from photocopiers and all those names are there. There is one with Xerox-Rank markings.

I always wondered why Rank would have acquired Cooke. Was it because of their photocopier business? (I always assumed it was to do with movie making but that didn't really make sense...)

 

[Dan Fromm]

Thanks for that, Dan. It would be a relief to compare notes - evidently TH was in the upgrade to Ed. 3! Perhaps the second (64-page?) edition has mistakenly been added to this eBay auction for the 3rd (98-page?) edition.

les CHIFFRES CLES - 3ème édition (objectifs, obturateurs) - Patrice-Hervé PONT | eBay

Les meilleures offres pour les CHIFFRES CLES - 3ème édition (objectifs, obturateurs) - Patrice-Hervé PONT sont sur eBay ✓ Comparez les prix et les spécificités des produits neufs et d'occasion ✓ Pleins d'articles en livraison gratuite!

www.befr.ebay.be

Tough book to find: out of print, out of stock, and not yet found a 3rd edition for sale used. Shame - it would be helpful. If I can't track down a copy of the later edition would you be willing to PM me a snap of p67?

I apologize for suggesting Pont. His TTH chronology is even worse guesswork than the VM's.

Example: I once had a coated 5"/4.5 Aviar s/n 292229. Pont places 240000 around 1940, 300000 around 1947. The VM says "1944 No303,xxx This is an early ELC coated Panchro and TTH coated from 1943?, ie perhaps at about No 290,00 or 300,000 and up" and "1947 Adotal at No344,xxx, Roytal at No335,xxx and Amotal at No 298,69x (publicity picture) and 300,xxx." I understand that the VM sometimes contradicts itself and desperately needed copy editing immediately after it was put together, but I find it easy to believe that my little Aviar was made in 1943 or 1944.

I also had an ex-Air Ministry 14"/5.6 Anastigmat (so engraved, actually an Aviar) s/n TT 286842 that I believe (but my memory may be faulty) wasn't coated. I find it easy to believe that the VM got the date when TTH began coating ("1942-3") approximately right, and that places my 5" Aviar in '43 or '44.

Good luck, have fun.