Tank needed for 4x5 developing?

[suanmein]

I'm fairly new in the whole developing process but since I've started shooting 4x5 I felt the need to develop my own film. I am now on the process of making a light tight dark room and already requested a bunch of stuff which I'll list below. I am wondering what else could I be missing so I can develop both B&W and Colored film. Since i have a dark room I'm not sure if a changing bag and tank is needed since my plan was to develop on trays but now I'm unsure if this is the best process.

• Ilfosol‑3 developer (500 ml)
• Ilfostop stop bath (500 ml)
• Ilford Rapid Fixer (500 ml)
• Funnels (16 oz) ×3
• Bamboo print tongs ×3
• 8×10 trays (white) ×3
• 950 ml black plastic bottles ×3
• 11 film holders

The obvious things I'd say I'm missing are:

• Timer
• Thermometer

Any advice would be thankfully received.

-Suanmein

 

[Paul Howell]

There are a number of options, the most expensive is a Jobo system with 4X5 reels. Less expensive is a Bessler or Unicolor motor base and paper drum that be used for sheet film, the 5X7 drums work well with 4X5 and use very little chemistry. Next is a set of trays, 5X7 trays work well, you need at least 3 trays but 4 or 5 is better. One for developer, one for stop bath or rinse, then fix, then wash, then clearing agent then back to wash then wetting agent. Then there are deep tanks and sheet film hangers. I use tanks, have never the hang of using trays without scratching the film. I have a small tank that takes a quart of chemistry and a set of 5 hangers. Then there are larger tanks that use a 1/2 gallon or more of chemistry and will take up to 8 or 9 hangers. You need the same number of tanks as for trays. What might be a factor is how much counter or sink space do have to work with. A unicolor motor base and drum take up very little space, once loaded can be used with room lights, and reduces development time by 15 to 20% depending on the film and developer combo.

 

[BrianShaw]

Stearman Press daylight tanks. Might be applicable only to B&W processors; Im not sure about use with color.

 

[MattKing]

@tim48v is Stearman Press, and they are a Photrio advertiser. Hear is their website link: https://www.shop.stearmanpress.com/

 

[mshchem]

I wouldn't worry about processing color at first. Get comfortable with black and white. The price of Kodak color sheet film is daunting.

The simplest way is find some old 1/2 gallon Kodak hard rubber open tanks, 6 film hangers and process in the dark. Done this way for decades, your own "dip and dunk" manual style.

Easy to replenish too.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I'm fairly new in the whole developing process but since I've started shooting 4x5 I felt the need to develop my own film. I am now on the process of making a light tight dark room and already requested a bunch of stuff which I'll list below. I am wondering what else could I be missing so I can develop both B&W and Colored film. Since i have a dark room I'm not sure if a changing bag and tank is needed since my plan was to develop on trays but now I'm unsure if this is the best process.

• Ilfosol‑3 developer (500 ml)
• Ilfostop stop bath (500 ml)
• Ilford Rapid Fixer (500 ml)
• Funnels (16 oz) ×3
• Bamboo print tongs ×3
• 8×10 trays (white) ×3
• 950 ml black plastic bottles ×3
• 11 film holders

The obvious things I'd say I'm missing are:

• Timer
• Thermometer

Any advice would be thankfully received.

-Suanmein

Welcome to Photrio!

 

[Sirius Glass]

There are a number of options, the most expensive is a Jobo system with 4X5 reels. Less expensive is a Bessler or Unicolor motor base and paper drum that be used for sheet film, the 5X7 drums work well with 4X5 and use very little chemistry. Next is a set of trays, 5X7 trays work well, you need at least 3 trays but 4 or 5 is better. One for developer, one for stop bath or rinse, then fix, then wash, then clearing agent then back to wash then wetting agent. Then there are deep tanks and sheet film hangers. I use tanks, have never the hang of using trays without scratching the film. I have a small tank that takes a quart of chemistry and a set of 5 hangers. Then there are larger tanks that use a 1/2 gallon or more of chemistry and will take up to 8 or 9 hangers. You need the same number of tanks as for trays. What might be a factor is how much counter or sink space do have to work with. A unicolor motor base and drum take up very little space, once loaded can be used with room lights, and reduces development time by 15 to 20% depending on the film and developer comb

I use the Jobo 3010 Expert Drum which can do as many as 10 4"x5" sheets. The drum produces consistently developed prints. I pick it up used at FreeStyle.

 

[koraks]

Since i have a dark room I'm not sure if a changing bag and tank is needed since my plan was to develop on trays but now I'm unsure if this is the best process.

Trays are fine. Whether they're the 'best' solution depends on your requirements. 9 times out of 10 when I process B&W sheet film, I use trays. One sheet at a time. Works great for me, the results is always perfect.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

I have both the Stearman Press SP-445 and SP-645. They work great.

I don't use a changing bag but a Harrison changing tent. Much more practical and comfortable for loading both film holders and development tanks.

 

[suanmein]

There are a number of options, the most expensive is a Jobo system with 4X5 reels. Less expensive is a Bessler or Unicolor motor base and paper drum that be used for sheet film, the 5X7 drums work well with 4X5 and use very little chemistry. Next is a set of trays, 5X7 trays work well, you need at least 3 trays but 4 or 5 is better. One for developer, one for stop bath or rinse, then fix, then wash, then clearing agent then back to wash then wetting agent. Then there are deep tanks and sheet film hangers. I use tanks, have never the hang of using trays without scratching the film. I have a small tank that takes a quart of chemistry and a set of 5 hangers. Then there are larger tanks that use a 1/2 gallon or more of chemistry and will take up to 8 or 9 hangers. You need the same number of tanks as for trays. What might be a factor is how much counter or sink space do have to work with. A unicolor motor base and drum take up very little space, once loaded can be used with room lights, and reduces development time by 15 to 20% depending on the film and developer combo.

So to avoid scratches it would be best to develop in tanks?

 

[suanmein]

Welcome to Photrio!

Thank you! Feeling very welcomed

 

[suanmein]

I wouldn't worry about processing color at first. Get comfortable with black and white. The price of Kodak color sheet film is daunting.

The simplest way is find some old 1/2 gallon Kodak hard rubber open tanks, 6 film hangers and process in the dark. Done this way for decades, your own "dip and dunk" manual style.

Easy to replenish too.

The thing is I got a deal on 4 packs of Kodak 64T for $50 so I do have some color I can shoot

 

[suanmein]

Trays are fine. Whether they're the 'best' solution depends on your requirements. 9 times out of 10 when I process B&W sheet film, I use trays. One sheet at a time. Works great for me, the results is always perfect.

Are chemicals reusable? If I decide to use trays and develop one sheet at a time.

 

[Luckless]

I feel like open tray development on panchromatic film to save on the cost of a daylight tank is a false economy. Some argument for working in ortho film and a safelight, but modern film would be fully blind in the dark, and trying to fish sheets of film from a tray in the dark with accurate timing sounds... Not fun.

Hangers and open top tanks doesn't sound entirely terrible, but I find a lot of value in how convenient various models of daylight tanks are.

Get them loaded and think of something else you need to attend to? Its safely in a daylight tank, just walk away and do something else.
I like being able to load up a tank and have it ready for processing at a later time, and not having to commit to the whole process in one block of time. It gives me more flexibility. [The dust currently sitting on top of one of my Paterson tanks might suggest a bit too much flexibility, but that's beside the point]

Can't comment on their suitability for colour work, but hopefully someone with more experience can chime in with yay or nays, but I'm a big fan of the Stearman Press tanks. I've ended up with both the 445 and 645 in my collection now. The price might seem high, but these tanks are durable enough that I expect they'll last me decades. $10 a year for development gear sounds rather affordable.

Paterson tanks with the Mod54 holder are also nice enough to work with, but would rank them well below Stearman Press tanks for usability.


As for darkroom vs changing bag, I do find value in a changing BOX or tent. Floppy bags aren't the nicest to work in, but simply adding a bit of structure to one makes it far more enjoyable to work with.

I like that they can reliably contain the stuff I'm working with. Knock something over by mistake? No having to feel around on the floor for missing things. As a bonus I can have something like YouTube playing in the background and I don't have to banish myself to a dark room till I'm finished. If something interrupts me it is fairly easy to make things reliably light safe for far less than a doorway Light Lock costs, and someone can't accidentally open a door and spoil my film on me.


As for decision making on all of this, there is unfortunately no 'one right answer'. It is all preference and 'what seems like a good idea at the time'. Roll with what sounds like something you can justify as a right answer for you and your current needs. You might be right, you might prove yourself wrong, but it is really hard to be sure till you try it.

 

[blee1996]

E6 color development for Kodak 64T in trays is not practical, in my humble opinion.

1) You need to be in total darkness for tray development. There are at least 3 different chemical (typically 4 to 6), and you need to find a way not to mess up with the wrong chemical or the wrong order.

2) It will be difficult to control temperature accurately with trays.

If you need to go ultra low budget, I will suggest getting a cheap used daylight tank like Paterson, just put one sheet of film inside (emulsion side facing in), and develop one sheet at a time.

Yes E6 chemicals are reusable for several sheets, follow the instructions on the E6 kit.

 

[suanmein]

E6 color development for Kodak 64T in trays is not practical, in my humble opinion.

1) You need to be in total darkness for tray development. There are at least 3 different chemical (typically 4 to 6), and you need to find a way not to mess up with the wrong chemical or the wrong order.

2) It will be difficult to control temperature accurately with trays.

If you need to go ultra low budget, I will suggest getting a cheap used daylight tank like Paterson, just put one sheet of film inside (emulsion side facing in), and develop one sheet at a time.

Yes E6 chemicals are reusable for several sheets, follow the instructions on the E6 kit.

Oh! I didn't know 64T's were transparencies. Seeing everyone's comments I'll probably get a tank for developing and use my current setup for printing then...

 

[Paul Howell]

So to avoid scratches it would be best to develop in tanks?

Tanks, with hangers, drums, paper drums or 4X5 reels. There are many folks who have mastered the shuffle, using a large tray 8X10 and developing a large number up to 12 of negatives at a time and shuffling the negative from the top to the bottom. Ansel Adams discussed this method in his book The Negative. I never mastered the shuffle, so I use tanks. I do have a motor base and film drum and have in the past developed 4X5 in it, but when I shoot LF I usually come home with 20 to 50 negatives, so using tray developing one negative at a time or paper drum with 2 is not time efficient for me. If you plan on shooting a small number of sheets, say 1 to 4 then using a set of trays will work without worry about scratches. If you use Foma you need to be even more careful as I belive that Foma has a softer emlusion than either Kodak or ILford.

 

[koraks]

Are chemicals reusable? If I decide to use trays and develop one sheet at a time.

Fixer, yes. Stop bath in principle too, but it's so cheap it doesn't matter. Developer depends a bit; usually not, but you don't need much. For 4x5 I use as little as 100ml solution, for 8x10 so rthing like 250ml. I use flat-bottomed trays personally. Slightly larger than the film size, but you don't need all that much of a margin. I use generic plastic storage boxes for fraud; the high walls are great for containing splashes, they're cheap and they can be had in many convenient sizes.

 

[mshchem]

The thing is I got a deal on 4 packs of Kodak 64T for $50 so I do have some color I can shoot

So Ektachrome 64T? If you are shooting lovely Ektachrome sheet film you'll need precise temperature control, simple with a sousvide heater. If you can manage to load a Nikor sheet film tank (4×5) these neat old stainless tanks require 1 liter of chemistry. You can process in daylight. Water bath for temperature control. I wouldn't try processing more than 6 sheets at a time.

I have used the Jobo 2509n reel and a 2500 tank, works great but I need IR viewer to manage loading.

 

[Paul Howell]

What is the expiration date? I don't recall when Kodak last made 64T, T stands for tungsten, to be used under hot lights or you need a filter to balance for daylight. You need 3 tanks one each of the steps, one quart of E 6 should do 6 to 8 sheets I think a quart kit runs a bit over $50. Then need temp control, + - 100 degrees F. Look on Ebay for the quart size tanks, along with a set of 4X5 hangers. As noted by mshchem, loading 4X5 reels takes practice. Is there anyone in Mexico who processes 4X5 E 6? If there is, shoot one sheet and send it off for processing, make sure that it is not fogged before investing in gear you may not need.

 

[abruzzi]

The Stearman 445 and 645 work perfectly with E6. I use a Cinestill "sous vide" device to heat a water bath and the chemical bottles and the tank all sit in the bath. The only caveat is compared to say a Patterson tank, the Stearman tanks have a much smaller fill opening, so filling the tank fast is challenging. I don't shoot much C41 anymore and I never develop it, but C41's "3m30s" developer step may be a little too quick for a slower filling tank like that. I've never developed at a lower temp, but that may be a good way to manage. But I've had great luck developing E6 in the stearman tanks.

Also, like @Paul Howell mentions--64T is color balanced for tungsten light, not sunlight (If you've ever messed with white balancing on a digital camera its the same theing except each film is made for a specific light color.) If you want to shoot it in sunlight, you'll need an 85, 85A, or 85B filter. According to Hoya (heh, that was an unintentional play on "according to Hoyle") those three filters have the following properties:

Filter	Light Source	To
85B	5500°K	3200°K
85	5300°K	3200°K
85A	4900°K	3200°K

So 85B works when the light is most blue (sunny day at noon). I'm guessing 85 and 85A are mid morning early evening? and the normal tungsten color temp is probably fine for sunset or golden hour. (but I am not an expert on color temps, I'm sure someone else like @DREW WILEY undestands the color stuff better.)

 

[pbromaghin]

Definitely a Stearman. 4 or 6 doesn't matter. They just plain work. I was sold the first time I used it.

 

[suanmein]

What is the expiration date? I don't recall when Kodak last made 64T, T stands for tungsten, to be used under hot lights or you need a filter to balance for daylight. You need 3 tanks one each of the steps, one quart of E 6 should do 6 to 8 sheets I think a quart kit runs a bit over $50. Then need temp control, + - 100 degrees F. Look on Ebay for the quart size tanks, along with a set of 4X5 hangers. As noted by mshchem, loading 4X5 reels takes practice. Is there anyone in Mexico who processes 4X5 E 6? If there is, shoot one sheet and send it off for processing, make sure that it is not fogged before investing in gear you may not need.

It expired on 1994. Do I need to compensate for this while shooting and/or developing?
Unfortunately there is only one developing lab where I live which take 2 weeks to deliver and only processes b&w and c41.

 

[suanmein]

So 85B works when the light is most blue (sunny day at noon). I'm guessing 85 and 85A are mid morning early evening? and the normal tungsten color temp is probably fine for sunset or golden hour. (but I am not an expert on color temps, I'm sure someone else like @DREW WILEY undestands the color stuff better.)

Had no idea about this, I wasn't sure why it said tungsten but it makes sense now. I'll probably just keep it on my fridge and get some b&w to shoot and develop before investing on E6, not sure...

 

[John Wiegerink]

Well, when you start talking about what to use to develop sheet film you open a pretty big can of worms. I used trays in my college large format course since that is what was required, but trays and me didn't get along very well. I then went to a Yankee 12 sheet adjustable tank and that worked fine if you use a replenishment developer system. If you used a "one shot" developer you ended up using much more developer and the cost went way up. I then tried the SP-445 and that's where I am at right now. It works great for my style of work and it keeps the cost way down on top of that. If I were starting out with the Stearman tanks I would probably opt for the SP-645. I'll also add that the JOBO system is great if you want to spend the extra bucks. I had a complete CPP-2 outfit with lift and a pile of tanks, but sold it all since the selling prices really went up and I just didn't do a high enough volume to warrant owning it. Took the money I made from it and bought the SP-445 and a bunch of 4X5 film. I think out of all the suggestions offered the Stearman tanks make the most since, but I've only had experience with what I mentioned above. Other systems might be superior, but I haven't tried them so can't say. I wish you a warm welcome and enjoyable times ahead.