sycamore photogram "wet cyanotype"

Herzeleid · Dec 9, 2018

Hi Ned,

It is wonderful use of paper negatives, I really like these prints. Forgive me if I am heavily influenced by your negative making process in near future . I wonder what densities can be reached with brown prints, what other positive print options they would suit.

BTW, salt fixed/stabilized prints would be still sensitive to light, may be during exposure your negatives would darken you end up with one of a kind positive print.

NedL · Dec 9, 2018

Hi Serdar,

The more the merrier! Sepia paper negatives are convenient to make and the color blocks UV pretty well. Like VDB it might not be easy to control the contrast.

I've only fixed them in salt a few times, because pdeeh did it and I was interested to see what the colors looked like -- it's a pretty gold color. I think they might darken but not "print out" ( no AFC left to reduce the silver and no free excess silver for physical development )... it will be interesting too see! If they darken, it might be one of a kind because they become unusable for future prints, but it might also make unique slightly "solarized" positive prints too!

Herzeleid · Dec 9, 2018

I like the idea of solarized prints.

I have written down some salt fixing methods, it was shared by Mark Osterman "%20 to saturated chloride, %1.5 (no more) iodide, %10-20 bromide". Although these were historically used for photogenic drawings of Talbot each salt gives a different color. I did some iodide fixing in the past, the print is still stable not faded but it is just eh. Tonality of the print in order of salts yellow and warm browns, pinkish highlights, bluish highlights.

NedL · Dec 9, 2018

(~3h in sun) blue ginkgo:

removed account4 · Dec 9, 2018

hey ned
are these ALL wet prints ?? or have you gone off the deep end and ... done dry ones now ?

i warned you about the addictive nature of cyanotypes, i hope you can withstand the pressures
to do them often and let-loose !

good luck !
john

ps. i think we might have a ginko biloba around here but i keep forgetting where it is

NedL · Dec 9, 2018

Only the first one was wet... it pushed me straight into the deep end and <gasp> made dry ones...

removed account4 · Dec 9, 2018

NedL said:
Only the first one was wet... it pushed me straight into the deep end and <gasp> made dry ones...

eddie · Dec 9, 2018

I'm enjoying these a lot, Ned. The ginkgo images look like living, moving organisms.

winger · Dec 9, 2018

These are great, Ned! I'd try a few if we had some sun, but it's been scarce here lately.

NedL · Dec 10, 2018

FWIW, I used something like these, and six of these, attached to a cheap 6 foot extension cord. They are hung inside one of those plastic milk crates with cable ties, with some heavy duty aluminum foil draped over the top and two sides ( two sides are open to allow air to circulate ). I put it in a garage corner where it's not in sight of anywhere anyone might go, and it's connected to an extension cord with a switch that I can turn on and off from the other side of the room. By dumb luck, the opening of the milk crate is the same size as my contact printing frame, so it sits right on top of it perfectly. They don't get too hot even after being on for many hours.

nmp · Dec 10, 2018

NedL said:
(~3h in sun) blue ginkgo:
View attachment 212604

Love this image. Anna would be proud! Ginkgo is one of my favorite trees.

Looks like you made a straight cyano with this one. Did not use the sepia inter-negative, right? Is that because of the fixing issue? Also wondering about sodium sulfite. Aren't you fixing with hypo?

:Niranjan.

winger · Dec 10, 2018

NedL said:
FWIW, I used something like these, and six of these, attached to a cheap 6 foot extension cord. They are hung inside one of those plastic milk crates with cable ties, with some heavy duty aluminum foil draped over the top and two sides ( two sides are open to allow air to circulate ). I put it in a garage corner where it's not in sight of anywhere anyone might go, and it's connected to an extension cord with a switch that I can turn on and off from the other side of the room. By dumb luck, the opening of the milk crate is the same size as my contact printing frame, so it sits right on top of it perfectly. They don't get too hot even after being on for many hours.

Ooooh - even I could make that. Hmm. Toughest part will be finding an unused spot to put it (garage would be ideal, but that's Ken's territory and is fairly full).

NedL · Dec 10, 2018

nmp said:
Love this image. Anna would be proud! Ginkgo is one of my favorite trees.

Looks like you made a straight cyano with this one. Did not use the sepia inter-negative, right? Is that because of the fixing issue? Also wondering about sodium sulfite. Aren't you fixing with hypo?

:Niranjan.

Right that's a straight cyanotype. Not for any reason except I thought it might look nice

For those sepiaprints, I fixed them using sodium sulfite instead of hypo. Namias mentions this in his article and suggests that the more yellow color is better for making negatives. Only time will tell if they are truly fixed, but one sat under my UV lamps for 8 hours didn't look any different at the end, so it appears to work. I have a theory about why it works, but more on that later...

nmp · Dec 11, 2018

NedL said:
Right that's a straight cyanotype. Not for any reason except I thought it might look nice

For those sepiaprints, I fixed them using sodium sulfite instead of hypo. Namias mentions this in his article and suggests that the more yellow color is better for making negatives. Only time will tell if they are truly fixed, but one sat under my UV lamps for 8 hours didn't look any different at the end, so it appears to work. I have a theory about why it works, but more on that later...

Got it....thanks.

Perhaps silver citrate has a better solubility in sodium sulfite than do silver halides that makes sodium sulfite OK to use here but not so in salt prints or traditional DOP papers. Just theorizing...

NedL · Dec 27, 2018

And some more. These are chestnut leaves, the sepiaprints fixed in salt.

I'm going to print this sepia negative today as a cyanotype positive:

NedL · Dec 28, 2018

cyanotype positive from sepia negative:

Need to leave a little more room around the edges so that "dirty border" could be masked off with a window mat.... and give the subject a little room to breath...

These are nice to hold in hand, with the bright colors and detail.... since that's what's nice, it makes me wonder if painting the leaves with bright colored inks and running through an etching press might not really be what these need

By the way, that sepiaprint negative that was fixed in salt was out in the sun all afternoon yesterday making this print, and it looks no different now than it did when I first made it. No idea what it will look like 10 years from now, but it seems to be perfectly well fixed for short term use.

Some of my earliest Namias' Sepia prints have faded over time... possibly that may be more of a problem than darkening. The ones toned in gold have not changed in the slightest.

NedL · Jan 5, 2019

Well, I'm getting pretty far away from cyanotypes or anything to do with photography with this, but this is what I've been fooling around with the past few days.

I painted some AFC ( one of the cyanotype chemicals ) onto some paper, then some tannic acid, and it made a black ink that did not wash out. So I thought I'd see if the tannins from the leaves themselves could make the print. I painted the AFC onto the leaf and then pressed it in the paper. Took a few tries before I started getting anything ( it needs some moisture, and it's faster with some warmth ).

This one made by putting the leaf between two sheets of strathmore 400 printing paper, putting an oatmeal can on top of it, filling it with boiling water, then letting it sit all afternoon:

This one made by putting the leaf into a folded piece of canson marker paper, putting damp paper towels on either side, then into a ziplock bag and zapping in my microwave a few times:

Kinda fun! So now I'm off in tannin leaf printing land for a while....

nmp · Jan 6, 2019

NedL said:
Well, I'm getting pretty far away from cyanotypes or anything to do with photography with this, but this is what I've been fooling around with the past few days.

I painted some AFC ( one of the cyanotype chemicals ) onto some paper, then some tannic acid, and it made a black ink that did not wash out. So I thought I'd see if the tannins from the leaves themselves could make the print. I painted the AFC onto the leaf and then pressed it in the paper. Took a few tries before I started getting anything ( it needs some moisture, and it's faster with some warmth ).

This one made by putting the leaf between two sheets of strathmore 400 printing paper, putting an oatmeal can on top of it, filling it with boiling water, then letting it sit all afternoon:

View attachment 214504

This one made by putting the leaf into a folded piece of canson marker paper, putting damp paper towels on either side, then into a ziplock bag and zapping in my microwave a few times:

View attachment 214503

Kinda fun! So now I'm off in tannin leaf printing land for a while....

So what we gonna call these - ned-o-grams?

Patrick Robert James · Jan 6, 2019

I believe it was Schopenhauer who said- talent hits a target no one else can hit. Genius hits a target no one else can see.

Pretty impressive Ned!

You could try a dry mount press too. Or an iron.

Love to see more of them.

NedL · Jan 6, 2019

nmp said:
So what we gonna call these - ned-o-grams?

In my head, I'm calling them "tannigrams"

Patrick Robert James said:
You could try a dry mount press too. Or an iron..

Thanks! Lots of people are dying fabric with leaves and calling it "eco printing". Not quite the same thing I stumbled into, but similar.
I was also thinking a steam iron might work really well for this, but haven't tried it yet.

NedL · Jan 6, 2019

Not so sure about these... I think the colors will be fast, but it also looks more than the others like a leaf that was dipped in paint and then simply pressed onto the paper. 2 sheet of printmaking paper, each about 6x9 inches, and a big chestnut leaf that was dried completely flat and brown... Did it in the microwave last night and let dry until now. I'l going to try washing these to learn more.

removed account4 · Jan 6, 2019

ned !
no idea how you are posting these on the internet,
you seem to be in a wormhole in about 1829
seriously kewl stuff you're doing !
can't wait to see what you do next ..

nmp · Jan 7, 2019

NedL said:
In my head, I'm calling them "tannigrams"

You are being too humble, but "tanningram" has a nice tone to it.

winger · Jan 7, 2019

The bottom ones in post #42 (how appropriate!) are VERY cool. The lower right one especially. I think Ned-o-grams sounds good! Tanningrams, too, but still...

NedL · Jan 7, 2019

The lower right one in #42 is my favorite so far too.

jnanian said:
ned !
no idea how you are posting these on the internet,

Only after I've chopped the wood and stoked the steam engine but the neighbors complain if I use the steam whistle too much....

sycamore photogram "wet cyanotype"

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