Survey - Kodachrome Revival Price Point?

[Photo Engineer]

As I write this, 1299 people are logged on to APUG. That is a "real" number and is meaningful in the face of the few that have read or responded to the poll. Out of almost 1300 people and so few are interested?

I used Kodachrome pretty much all the time until Ektachrome came out. I used it for the convenience of processing it at home. However, years later, I had to run comparison tests of Kodachrome, Ektachrome, Agfachrome and Fujichrome against Kodacolor / Ektacolor. At that point, I changed to Ektachrome and Ektacolor after seeing how poor Kodachrome actually was for color reproduction. So, I am disinterested at any price.

PE

 

[MattKing]

I didn't vote.

But ....

I have a good stash of E100G in 120 in my freezer that I paid normal market prices for.

If given a choice between it and the new, improved Kodachrome 100 that people are fantasizing about, I would trade the E100G for the new Kodachrome in a heartbeat.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

The population of the entire world wasn't sampled.

Now you're getting there. This is what I was trying tell you. If the population of the entire world had been sampled, far more than only 22 would likely be willing to purchase the film. And far more than only 37 would not.

It's the percentages that matter, not the absolute counts. Even if the methodology is less than ideal. To extract meaningful information from the raw data, you must understand the methodology and mitigate for its identified weaknesses.

Or put more colorfully, its "shadows"...

Ken

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

I didn't vote.

But ....

I have a good stash of E100G in 120 in my freezer that I paid normal market prices for.

If given a choice between it and the new, improved Kodachrome 100 that people are fantasizing about, I would trade the E100G for the new Kodachrome in a heartbeat.

You're not alone, Matt.



Ken

 

[Prof_Pixel]

Now you're getting there. This is what I was trying tell you. If the population of the entire world had been sampled, far more than only 22 would likely be willing to purchase the film. And far more than only 37 would not.

It's the percentages that matter, not the absolute counts. Even if the methodology is less than ideal. To extract meaningful information from the raw data, you must understand the methodology and mitigate for its identified weaknesses.

Nope, we can say NOTHING about the population of the world's response. To design a meaningful experiment you have to be able to define the population to be studies and know how large it is. Then we have to define a suitable random sample size and test the subset of our population of interest.

We have done none of this. As I said earlier, all we know is 22 people out of the APUGers who read the message thread chose to 'vote' that they were interested in purchasing Kodachrome. The percentage of those who self-selected to answer the poll is meaningless.

 

[Prof_Pixel]

As I write this, 1299 people are logged on to APUG. That is a "real" number and is meaningful in the face of the few that have read or responded to the poll. Out of almost 1300 people and so few are interested?

Ron,

I've seen that figure. I was never sure if that is the number of people online or the number of messages online.

 

[Photo Engineer]

People! This was discussed a few years ago in a (sigh) similar situation.

 

[benjiboy]

Kodachrome's revival is I.M.O.is people's childlike belief that if you want something badly enough it will happen,unfortunately in reality, life's a bitch, then you die.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Please, not again.

Not gonna happen, at any price.

Why would I ever want the Kodachrome muddy skies while I can still get Ektachrome?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Kodachrome revival is I.M.O. the childlike belief that if you want something badly enough it will happen, but unfortunately in reality, life's a bitch, then you die.

+1

 

[removed account4]

is it 1300 different people or 50 people clicking over and over again ...?

the gallery used to see 3 people clicking 100 times as 300 people, maybe the
forum is that way too

 

[Athiril]

Would rather have E100G in 120.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

As I said earlier, all we know is 22 people out of the APUGers who read the message thread chose to 'vote' that they were interested in purchasing Kodachrome. The percentage of those who self-selected to answer the poll is meaningless.

[Emphasis mine. —Ken]

If you already knew this, then why did you attach any significance at all to the number 22 in your previous post?

Fred, you're driving this vehicle around in tight circles.

See above...

Ken

 

[Prof_Pixel]

Ken,

Then I take it we agree the figures are meaningless.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Ken,

Then I take it we agree the figures are meaningless.

The issue is citing data when one thinks it supports one's case, then selectively discounting identically derived data when one thinks it does not.

If the raw data number '22' says anything meaningful against the case for Kodachrome (as you implied in your post), then the raw data number '37' carries exactly the same weight in the argument for Kodachrome.

Can't logically draw one conclusion without the other. No cherry-picking allowed.

Ken

 

[Prof_Pixel]

All I said in my earlier post was 'Nope... just saying that out of all the APUGers who have read the Kodachrome thread, 22 isn't a very significant response.' Note I limited my population size to the APUGers who have read the Kodachrome thread in that posting. I didn't extend it to the population in general.

 

[RattyMouse]

I guess the dismal showing by Kodachrome in this poll will finally put the idea of bringing this film back to life firmly to bed.

 

[Roger Cole]

As I write this, 1299 people are logged on to APUG. That is a "real" number and is meaningful in the face of the few that have read or responded to the poll. Out of almost 1300 people and so few are interested?

I used Kodachrome pretty much all the time until Ektachrome came out. I used it for the convenience of processing it at home. However, years later, I had to run comparison tests of Kodachrome, Ektachrome, Agfachrome and Fujichrome against Kodacolor / Ektacolor. At that point, I changed to Ektachrome and Ektacolor after seeing how poor Kodachrome actually was for color reproduction. So, I am disinterested at any price.

PE

Well accuracy isn't everything. I personally have little use for Velvia for example, because it's SO exaggerated it looks cartoonish to me. But some people love it. No one would really call it accurate though.

 

[removed account4]

DEAREST KIND SIR:

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on the 21st October 1984, my father took me and my younger brother HASSAN special because we are motherless. Before the death of my father on
30th June 2002 in a private hospital here in Abidjan. He secretly called me on his bedside and told me that he has a sum of $72.500.000
(Seventy Two Million, five hundred thousand dollars) left in a suspense account in a local Bank here in Abidjan, that he used my name as his first
Daughter for the next of kin in deposit of the fund.

He also explained to me that it was because of this wealth and some huge amount of money his business associates supposed to balance his from
the deal they had that he was poisoned by his business associates, that I should seek for a God fearing foreign partner in a country of my choice
where I will transfer this money and use it for investment purpose, (such as real estate management).
Sir, we are honourably seeking your assistance in the following way.

To provide a Bank account where this money would be transferred to.

Moreover Sir, we are willing to offer you 75% of the sum as compensation for effort to revive that wonderful KODACHROME FILM after the successful transfer of this fund to your designate account overseas. please feel free to contact ,me via this email address
xxxxxxxxxxxx at yahoo.com

Anticipating to hear from you soon.
Thanks and God Bless.
Best regards.
Miss Wumi

PLEASE FOR PRIVATE AND SECURITY REASONS,REPLY ME VIA EMAIL:
xxxxxxxxxxxx at yahoo.com

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

All I said in my earlier post was 'Nope... just saying that out of all the APUGers who have read the Kodachrome thread, 22 isn't a very significant response.' Note I limited my population size to the APUGers who have read the Kodachrome thread in that posting. I didn't extend it to the population in general.

Had you chosen the more neutral observation, "59 isn't a very significant response" I could not have disagreed.

This poll is not invalid. These are, in fact, real people casting votes. And there is interesting information to be derived from that raw data set. Both in terms of what we see, and perhaps also by what we don't.

But it's so skewed (as you have pointed out, and Scott graciously acknowledged when he originally started it) that its greatest value may simply be one of entertainment. Watching posters bend obvious and proven facts into pretzels to suit their emotional prejudices can sometimes be hilarious.

But I'm good with that as well. As I said in post #18 regarding this poll, "...but it should be great fun anyway just to watch."

To reuse an earlier analogy from another recent poll, too many people here seem to equate discussing Kodachrome to having one's house burned down and family killed. Everyone needs to lighten up. Either right-sized EK film production and the possibilities that go along with it (including, but not limited to, Kodachrome) is going to happen. Or it won't.

And the sun will still rise the next morning. Even if the mountain range it rises over is located in Italy...

Ken

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

I guess the dismal showing by Kodachrome...

Now THAT'S funny!



Ken

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

I am Wumi...

An THAT'S even funnier!!



Ken

 

[Wayne]

Ron,



I've seen that figure. I was never sure if that is the number of people online or the number of messages online.

When it says X online, there are X online. Right now, over 1000 users, 982 of whom are laughing at or blissfully ignorant of all this.

 

[Prof_Pixel]

Wayne,

Thanks

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Prof_Pixel

So Fred, let me ask you something...

It's pretty much acknowledged by all here that this poll is unavoidably skewed. Perhaps a few hold-outs, but I think most are on board with not seriously citing it to support their cases.

That said, I believe from reading this and prior threads that you have applicable experience in the market research area. If I'm wrong, please correct me. But if so, I'd be very interested to know just exactly what you might propose for a new Kodachrome poll if the goal was to be able to extract more meaningful information from the data it would collect.

This is not a trick question. To convince you of that I can offer that my statistics were learned decades ago within the context of a degree in Geological Sciences. Sedimentary depositional regimes, to be more precise. Layers of deposition hundreds of feet thick built up grain-by-excruciating-grain of settling sand, so to speak.

That's a long way from statistical marketing. And the decades and a major career change have made it functionally even longer. So I still retain some broad outlines, but would need to defer to more recent implementation expertise. That's where my honestly serious question to you comes in.

What could we do, if anything, and within the constrained context of an APUG poll, to improve our chances of getting meaningful results? Presumably this would involve better designing the question(s) asked, and the voting options. I don't think we could alter the presentation format, but I might be wrong. But there must be a better way to approach this Kodachrome question.

Would it help to limit the set of allowed voters in any way? Or perhaps run concurrent polls asking multiple questions? Or running the poll(s) for longer or shorter periods? Or maybe moving to an outside polling capability, like what Harman does now and then, and just announce it here? I don't know. Just throwing out ideas.

Contrary to what some may think, I am not wedded to any single point of view on this. If a well-designed mechanism could be created and executed, and it pointed away from my preferences, I'd have no problem with that at all.

What I can't stomach are the simplistic "It's dead, Jim" appeals. Gawd, we are better than that, aren't we? Aren't we? I'd truly love to think so. APUG is supposed to be known for a higher level of discourse than that.

So, honest question, is there any way that you might think of that the polling process could be improved for this question? Or are we doomed to suffer these polls for their entertainment value only?

Ken