'Sure Be Nice If Ektachrome Wasn't the Only One Available...

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I've seen piles of ruined, faded old Kodachrome slides. There's nothing inherently permanent about those either. All it takes is a lack of air circulation and some humidity, and mold and mildew take over. PVC storage sleeves ruined many others. And many outright faded due to too much projection.

Experiences vary, I'm sure. And the above isn't my own.
I have approx. 30,000 slides (all up) in original yellow 'K' plastic boxes, in original 'K' card mounts dating from (earliest) 1962 to the last in 1986. I have written about this heaving archive created by my two late aunties who globetrotted on PanAm from Australia in the 1960s to mid-1980s. All Kodachrome, with several boxes of Ektachrome (the E4 chems type) having faded out. None of these Kodachrome slides have seen a projector in many decades, though some were printed (Ilfochrome Classic prints), just so the rest of my curious family were spared the indignity of squinting at a saucy tranny against the bright outdoor light. I had several irritating experiences — learning experiences, if you will, in the late 1970s storing my own slides in PVC sleeves. That idea went out the way of the dinosaurs!
 

DREW WILEY

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Interesting. None of my Ektachromes have faded; most are sheet film. None of my Kodachromes either. But my brother's collection, stored in a closet in a more humid climate, fared badly, and all my aunt's even earlier Kodachromes were worthless by the time I inherited them - many of those were projected in her Art History classes. I managed to preserve a few of my brothers best 4x5 chromes on Cibachrome. What really made me sad is that he kept his best dye transfer print in a vinyl sleeve and it didn't do well there at all. But that was the custom of the era, even among pros.
 

mshchem

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I too am a B&W film only photographer for my "normal" photography ... it gives me far more enjoyment than any digital.

My colour slide photography is very specialised ... medium format stereo photography. Once you see a stereo pair of 50x50mm colour slides (Ektachrome or Provia, I prefer the latter), viewed in a good optical stereo viewer, you will be hooked! It is literally as though you are standing in the exact place you took the photo, it's hard to find words to describe the realism. And once you're hooked, you spend too much money on film and all the trappings of film-based stereoscopy.

OMG! yes! I remember discovering my grandpa's stereo viewer, old time he was born in the 1880s. I was hooked on photography then. So amazing. I would like to know more about your setup.
 

DREW WILEY

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I loved climbing up the attic ladder and opening up the family cedar chest, which included a red velvet lined Victorian era stereopticon, plus a big pile of old stereo images, many of them containing Western pictures taken by, of all people, Carleton Watkins. Those were mass produced, and all basically rote scenic fare, and even today would be of only modest antique value. It's not like finding a stash of his personal work contact printed onto albumen - now that would be a gold mine! Most of those mammoth plate prints were destroyed during the 1906 SF earthquake and fire, just a week or two before he was due to transfer them all in a sale to Stanford. That incident landed him in an insane asylum. Nowadays we big camera types are left alone to go about as we please, insane of not.
 
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Ten301

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Not if Kodak did it in-house. And any excuse for why they can't do it is just a convenient excuse!

There could also be the environmental factor. If some of the chemistry may no longer be available to process Kodachrome as others have suggested, it could be because it is now banned by the various government agencies. We saw how Fuji chose to withdraw Velvia 100 from the U.S. market because it contains a very small amount of a chemical the U.S. EPA banned instead of reformulating it. Apparently it is not an easy task. So consider Kodachrome with very complicated, multi-step, chemical-intensive processing unique to that film alone. It would be a nightmare to ‘reinvent’ the process.
 

ChrisGalway

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Couldn't you scan smaller formats and display them in 3D through a smart TV. My Sony TV displays 3D using active 3D glasses.

Yes, and this is what the overwhelming majority of stereo-enthusiasts (known as stereopaths!) do, or some digital variation of it (for example laptops with "lightfield" 3D displays). But I think it's accepted in the world of stereopaths that the very best display for still stereo photos is an immersive optical viewer and large medium format colour transparencies. It's a combination of the resolution, colour rendering, dynamic range and image brightness ... even the best digital displays are not quite there, yet. Very few people actually do this though, because of the large cost, not only of the film/processing but of the cameras and viewers. And of course, it's "selfish" ... you can only share the experience in person using an optical viewer.

I am a huge fan of sterephotography, and while I've gotten proficient at the "cross your eyes" viewing approach, I'd love to learn which viewers you prefer and where I might get one. Medium and large format slides in stereo sound like pure magic.

Only only (micro-)company actively selling medium format stereo viewers is Mercury Cameras https://mercurystereo.com/stereo12.html and will cost around US$600. A more portable viewer of similarly high image quality and a wider focussing range is made to order by Matej Bohac in Europe http://stereofotografie.matej.boha.cz/projects.php , similar price. Secondhand viewers made by 3DWorld around 20 years ago occasionally come up on eBay for less money. As I said above, this is an expensive hobby!

So as not to get too much off-topic, this micro-discussion arose because (IMO) colour transparencies are THE way to display stereo images.
 

BHuij

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Yeah I'll let the thread go back on topic as well. Was just curious. I'm fascinated by the idea of 6x6 stereo, but not fascinated enough to spend $600 on a viewer. Wonder if a decent on could be DIY'd. I have the benefit of a woodshop, a 3D printer, and enough CAD chops to be dangerous. A potent combination :wink:
 

MattKing

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A "Stereo Photography" thread would certainly be welcomed - hint, hint.
That way I could share some of the info I've gained from my friend who has a phenomenal collection of stereo photography, equipment related to it and technical information. :smile:
But yes, back to Ektachrome please.
 

George Mann

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It ain't going to happen!

This kind of attitude is one of the driving factors that is causing the world to come to an end. No one believes in anything anymore.

What is likely possible is to atleast create an E6 version with the basic look of Kodachrome.

This is something that we can all encourage Kodak to do.
 

DREW WILEY

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Invest your karma in Fuji Supergloss instead. It's an even better product than Cibachrome, and can be developed in ordinary RA4 chem.
 

BHuij

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Invest your karma in Fuji Supergloss instead. It's an even better product than Cibachrome, and can be developed in ordinary RA4 chem.

Is it available for a home darkroom printer, and a positive-to-positive process that would allow me to make enlargements from my existing chromes without messing around with analog or digital internegatives?

If so, color me intrigued.

If not, then I don't really care if it's a "better product" than Cibachrome. It's fundamentally not comparable for my purposes.
 

AZD

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What is likely possible is to atleast create an E6 version with the basic look of Kodachrome.

I would buy this. I think a lot of other photographers would too. Kodachrome has enough of a reputation and legend behind it that Kodak could easily rely on it for marketing. Just imagine, KodEktachrome available in 35mm, 120, and sheets. I want it right now!
 

MattKing

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I would buy this. I think a lot of other photographers would too. Kodachrome has enough of a reputation and legend behind it that Kodak could easily rely on it for marketing. Just imagine, KodEktachrome available in 35mm, 120, and sheets. I want it right now!

ICf you want it to happen, chat up the people who use Ektachrome for motion picture work. If their isn't push for it from both the still photo users and the motion picture users, it is unlikely to happen.
And you probably don't want to talk to any of the engineers like the late Ron Mowrey, who considered Kodachrome to be inferior to modern Ektachrome, due to the nature of the components available for such a process.
 

George Mann

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And you probably don't want to talk to any of the engineers like the late Ron Mowrey, who considered Kodachrome to be inferior to modern Ektachrome, due to the nature of the components available for such a process.

Which is why we need a new E6 version of it!
 

DREW WILEY

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BHuji - just one more step away. Ciba required masking for contrast control and hue correction. That same skill set also allows one to make high quality direct optical internegatives from chromes in the darkroom, potentially resulting in a very high quality of reproduction even better than what scanning and laser printing produce. Depends of you equip and skill level. But it's really no more work than those Cibas which required multiple masks for best results; and Fujiflex is a lot easier to handle. I've remastered a number of my old chromes onto precision internegs.

Downside - the ideal sheet film for such interneg work (Portra 160) is getting quite expensive, especially in 8X10. But the overall cost of printing Fujiflex is less than it would be for Ciba if were still around. Another potential issue - Fujiflex is now sold only rolls 30 or 40 inch wide (possibly 50 inch too), which you'd have to cut down to size yourself.

Question mark - how long will Fujiflex itself still be around? Dunno. It's coated in Japan, unlike Fuji's RC color papers. And Fuji's corporate mentality can be inscrutable.
 

konakoa

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Drew, would you be willing to make a print for hire as you described in your posting above? A 16x20 print from a 4x5 transparency? I used to do amateur printing on Ilfochrome but all that material and equipment is long gone. I could get something scanned and inkjet printed (eeegh) but I'd really like to see something from your process.
 

AZD

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And you probably don't want to talk to any of the engineers like the late Ron Mowrey, who considered Kodachrome to be inferior to modern Ektachrome, due to the nature of the components available for such a process.

I would talk to any engineer, along with their directors and program managers, etc. This is already my job, just in a different field. As much as I do respect the opinions of those who possess such incredible depth of knowledge and lived experience, that expertise doesn’t necessarily translate into the “best” of anything. I’m sure that most engineers have stories about something technically inferior that also happened to put a whole lot of money in the company’s bank account during its life cycle. I do.


ICf you want it to happen, chat up the people who use Ektachrome for motion picture work. If their isn't push for it from both the still photo users and the motion picture users, it is unlikely to happen.

This thought had crossed my mind and I suspect you are correct. There’s a somewhat parallel thread about Fujichrome availability in the US. I commented that Hollywood dollars, or lack of thereof, is a strike against long term availability of Fuji E6 film. My conclusion here is similar: use as much E100 as you can get and enjoy it while it lasts.

…but never give up hope on KodEktachrome.
 

DREW WILEY

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konakoa - thanks for the offer; but I rarely print the works of others, and do color printing only certain times of year. I'm not even sure the remainder of my roll of Fujiflex is still in usable condition. An outfit that routinely prints on 'Flex (via scanning) would be Weldon Color Lab in the LA area. Their prices seem reasonable, and they have a good reputation.
 
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I would buy this. I think a lot of other photographers would too. Kodachrome has enough of a reputation and legend behind it that Kodak could easily rely on it for marketing. Just imagine, KodEktachrome available in 35mm, 120, and sheets. I want it right now!

Velvia 50 is nicer IMO, and an E6 emulsion making production and processing easier and more available. Unfortunately, it's been dropped in large format and who knows how long it will be around in smaller formats?
 

MattKing

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Which is why we need a new E6 version of it!

The inherent problems in the last versions of Kodachrome - which were a bit better than earlier versions - meant that there was a built in inability to achieve colour fidelity.
The E6 films of the same era did not suffer from those problems, and were therefore able to achieve better colour fidelity.
I guess you could design into modern E6 materials the problems with Kodachrome colour fidelity, but would you want to?
 

George Mann

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The inherent problems in the last versions of Kodachrome - which were a bit better than earlier versions - meant that there was a built in inability to achieve colour fidelity.
The E6 films of the same era did not suffer from those problems, and were therefore able to achieve better colour fidelity.
I guess you could design into modern E6 materials the problems with Kodachrome colour fidelity, but would you want to?

You may consider it inaccurate, but it captured the essence of the scene more faithfully than any other.

Outright accuracy makes for a sterile and clinical image. Many of us seek more.
 

MattKing

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You may consider it inaccurate, but it captured the essence of the scene more faithfully than any other.

Outright accuracy makes for a sterile and clinical image. Many of us seek more.

So essentially, Kodachrome was like a child - you loved it as much for its faults as anything else :smile:.
I'm sure that you can understand where a chemical engineer who worked on photographic films might not share the same outlook :smile:.
Not even the chemical engineer who shared responsibility for the creation of the final, K-14 version of Kodachrome.
 
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