Street photography without pissing people off?

[graywolf]

Good point, smaller camera does help i noticed. People react less to my Olympus Pen than my SLRs on the street.

Sometimes I can't help to think about what people think. For example if i am going to photograph a bum on the street, I can't help but to think what he'll do, "is he crazy enough to get mad and chase me down the street?" haha. Or better yet, when I'm in the hood.

Maybe your problem is you are taking photos of "bums on the street" rather than "people on the street". Maybe if I picked up on a negative attitude about me like that I would take your camera away from you and stick it up your.... Maybe the guy is a day laborer on his lunch break. Maybe he is an undercover cop. And maybe some one kicked him out of his apartment and he does not have enough cash for the deposit on another. On the other hand, maybe he IS a homicidal drug addict and is about to kill your stupid ass, you do not seem to be able to tell the difference.

Why would anyone, other than a spy of some sort, want to photograph people they did not like? I used to read these kinds of posts and threaten to go uptown and shoot derogatory photos of the "suits". Never got around to it, and now I live in a small town where the only people who wear suits are the attorneys. It is the county seat so there are quite a few attorneys about.

If you are taking photos of people because you think they are interesting, you can use a 5x7 speed graphic with flash and they will probably smile because you took their photo. There are some people who do not like to be photographed, and if they indicate that, just smile and turn your camera courteously away.

I do not even have good people skills, and I understand this stuff. What is so difficult about it?

 

[oneANT]

I made the mistake (on flickr of all places) of telling a guy I liked his pic (was just giving some encouragement) ...he thought that was reason enough to go back and take some more but more than this he spent the day with the guy and it looks like he bought him booze or gave him enough to buy and then hung out and you could see he was pushing the drunk on. The pics are of the drunk having fun abusing people on the trains and in the streets and this 'street tog' captured it all. I pretty much stopped talking to anyone after that.

Use this, use that, big camera, little camera ...maybe someone reading this thread will find out what street photography is before they try to take a picture of it with whatever and then realize that 'whatever' is best because they understand what they are doing with it.

Street photography needs a new name so that some of us can get away from the rest of us.

 

[Newt_on_Swings]

I was at the mermaid parade today at Coney Island, out on the boardwalk after and was just shooting people dressed for the festivities. I had asked a group of women for a photo, which they kindly posed, I thanked them after, they thanked me for asking. Then were hounded by a group of digi photographers. Kinda made me realize there are lots of people with cameras that are just plain rude, and this is where lots of negativity occurs. I saw lots of shoving huge 5ds with grips and zoom lenses in people faces as well as just walking into peoples paths to block and stop them, snap and walk away, worst were the guys trying to use fill flash popping away with their speedlites.

 

[Steve Smith]

P.S my street photography pisses off my wife who can't understand why I "waste film taking pictures of people I don't even know"

Actually, that's how I usually think of street photography.


Steve.

 

[Zewrak]

Actually, that's how I usually think of street photography.


Steve.

I kind of agreed with you before. But recently I have been looking for pictures of my ancestors and buildings around the village where I live. We have a county archive of photographs where people donate pictures and negatives. Which are all scanned and browsable at the library. It's a true treasure. People find errors, identify people and tag the photos. I have found photos of my grand grand grandfather for example. These are glassplates that were shot by that times "streetphotographers".

Today I am grateful to those that do it. Having some kind of respect and common sense though, is important. But that applies to all people, not only the morons with cameras. But also morons without one.

Good practice, go out and meet people without the camera. If you can meet and talk to the people without a camera. You probably have what it takes to be a streetphotographer. Any idiot can take a sneaky shot. The art is in actually interacting with the people you meet.

 

[benjiboy]

Actually, that's how I usually think of street photography.


Steve.

If a photographer is afraid of "pissing people off", they should pursue another branch of photography they are more comfortable with, street shooting isn't for the timid, you have to be thick skinned.

 

[Steve Smith]

If a photographer is afraid of "pissing people off", they should pursue another branch of photography they are more comfortable with.

It wasn't the "pissing people off" bit I was commenting on (I don't mind doing that). It was just having photographs of people I didn't know. It doesn't bother me if other people want to do that though.


Steve.

 

[R.Gould]

Depends on what you mean by 'street photography'' if it is simply taking photos of people in the streets going about their normal business then that, to me, is a waste of time and film, but I do a lot of photography at street events and street theatre,I always ask first, and show my camera, and never have a problem, and get some great studies that way, there are times when I am out and about, and I see some one with an ''interesting'' face and I always ask and very rarely get refused these days, I think it may be the cameras I use, people don't seem to feel threatened by an old folder or Rollei, or a small old rangefinder, where when I used to use big SLR's people seemed to shy away from them, but I find that they think it's fun to be photographed by something that looks to them, as if it has come out of the ark, I always get asked for a print, and always make certain that they get a copy, although it can take a while, but I make certain that they know it may be a while. I also think that sometimes people are bothered by the perception that digital photographs are so easily altered, and that they can be made a fool of, where with old cameras they some how trust the results, as I said, it is a perception, but whatever, for me using old cute cameras,( their idea not mine) means the photographs will somehow look better than modern cameras,
Richard

 

[cliveh]

Depends on what you mean by 'street photography'' if it is simply taking photos of people in the streets going about their normal business then that, to me, is a waste of time and film, but I do a lot of photography at street events and street theatre,I always ask first, and show my camera, and never have a problem, and get some great studies that way, there are times when I am out and about, and I see some one with an ''interesting'' face and I always ask and very rarely get refused these days, I think it may be the cameras I use, people don't seem to feel threatened by an old folder or Rollei, or a small old rangefinder, where when I used to use big SLR's people seemed to shy away from them, but I find that they think it's fun to be photographed by something that looks to them, as if it has come out of the ark, I always get asked for a print, and always make certain that they get a copy, although it can take a while, but I make certain that they know it may be a while. I also think that sometimes people are bothered by the perception that digital photographs are so easily altered, and that they can be made a fool of, where with old cameras they some how trust the results, as I said, it is a perception, but whatever, for me using old cute cameras,( their idea not mine) means the photographs will somehow look better than modern cameras,
Richard

Richard, does Joe public really think like this? If you point a lens at them from whatever camera, I doubt if they are evaluating it’s OK with an old camera, but not with digital.

 

[Roger Cole]

Richard, does Joe public really think like this? If you point a lens at them from whatever camera, I doubt if they are evaluating it’s OK with an old camera, but not with digital.

Not my experience; it's more limited but seems to agree with Joe's. I see people avoiding those with DSLRs, ignoring but not asking to be photographed with my 35mm SLRs, and approaching me to ask about and sometimes asked to be photographed with my TLR. My Mamiya 645 looks more like some kind of big digital and is similarly viewed a bit askance. Setting up the 4x5 often attracts people but I don't typically carry it down the street so I can't say about that for "street" but getting a Graphic with working rangefinder that I can shoot handheld is on the "someday I'll do that" list.

 

[R.Gould]

Richard, does Joe public really think like this? If you point a lens at them from whatever camera, I doubt if they are evaluating it’s OK with an old camera, but not with digital.

Clive,
as I said I do not do a lot street photography in the sense of photographing people going about getting on with their lives, but my experiance at street events both over here and in France is the same, I have seen people turning away from the digi look SLR's etc but happily letting me take their photographs with my old folders and tlrs, it has happened time and again, and more often than not we end up talking about the cameras I am using, memories come from them about, in some cases, the cameras they used when they were younger, sometimes their fathers or grandfathers using this or that camera,even when, on the od occasion, I have approached people in the street, I would always have my cameras on view, and they nearly always say yes, then want to know about the cameras, how old they are etc, I personally think their is some sort of old world charm about these cameras,Remember I always do people the courtesy of asking people first and making sure they see the camera, and a rollei or a folder just look old, antique, and as often been said to me over the years, safe somehow, you have to take your time,not just fire off and then stare at the display to see if you have got something, I can't tell you why, but I have only experianced this since my love affair with 50+ year old cameras, all that I use now.
When I used so called Modern cameras such as the AF Slr's and my Bronica etr, I more often than not would get a firm no or people trying to avoid looking at the lens, these days it is just the oppisite, maybe these cameras just look so totally different to those that most people use today, something from a more relaxed and happier past, I don't know, all I know is that here and where I go in France there seems little resistence to the charms of ''oldworld'' cameras.

Richard

 

[cliveh]

Richard, as I have only ever shot street photography with old cameras, I have never been able to compare the experience of old and new you speak of and therefore accept what you say. I was just surprised that the general public are that perceptive about what to us is a specialised knowledge.

 

[Roger Cole]

They generally don't know much about it. But a DSLR, a P&S digital, and to some extent 35mm SLRs and P&S cameras all look like cameras to them. Most older designs, TLRs, press cameras, medium format rangefinders etc. look either old or, if clearly pretty new, at least quite odd to them. Medium format cameras with grips, eye level finders, motors etc. (my 645 Pro has all three) can easily be confused for modern medium format digital - they might not know the words but they have an idea of "digital pro camera" - or even digital video cameras.

Cameras that look old, whether they are or not, seem to get a nicer welcome.

 

[R.Gould]

They generally don't know much about it. But a DSLR, a P&S digital, and to some extent 35mm SLRs and P&S cameras all look like cameras to them. Most older designs, TLRs, press cameras, medium format rangefinders etc. look either old or, if clearly pretty new, at least quite odd to them. Medium format cameras with grips, eye level finders, motors etc. (my 645 Pro has all three) can easily be confused for modern medium format digital - they might not know the words but they have an idea of "digital pro camera" - or even digital video cameras.

Cameras that look old, whether they are or not, seem to get a nicer welcome.

Roger, that is my point in a nutshell, the average man or woman in the street, without the knowledge that we as photographers have, seeing the folders, old fixed lens cameras or Tlrs, that I, and many others use, see is a nice old camera, very often one of the first thing someone will say to me is what a lovely old camera, It is very rare for me to go out with a camera without someone wanting to talk about ''that lovely old camera'' they are not seen as a threat, and you are not seen as a threat, as someone with a '' modern'' SLr camera,
Richard

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Richard, does Joe public really think like this? If you point a lens at them from whatever camera, I doubt if they are evaluating it’s OK with an old camera, but not with digital.

At the state fair last year I was using a 4x5 Pacemaker Crown Graphic for walkaround people photographs. Not a single compaint. Rather, it was difficult to achieve anything other than wide smiles and/or friendly waves of the hand. Almost impossible to get anything unposed.

At one point while walking along I had a young lady actually grab my arm from behind to stop me. Her request? Could she use her DSLR to image me pretending to photograph her friend using the Crown. THAT was an unexpected twist. Of course I said yes and dutifully posed. That Crown was a better ice-breaker than anything used by the US Coast Guard.

Old (or old looking) cameras make a huge difference. It's an ancient antique, so you can't possibly be a threat.

Ken

 

[dnjl]

I have found that many people are annoyed by digital cameras, but feel strangely appreciated when someone takes their picture with a really old-looking ("antique" to their eyes), beat-up analogue camera. They seem to think that using such a camera makes one an artist, and they want to be included in the 'artwork' that is created.

 

[cliveh]

You are deluded, they don't even notice.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Hi Walter,

I can't speak for the digital side. I've never owned or even used one. But the Crown was an amazing conversation starter.

I'd release the shutter, usually also firing a Sunpak 544 for fill on a sunny day,* and people would immediately head straight for me. Not to chew me out for intruding. But to excitedly ask, "How old is that camera? Where'd you get it?" Followed by, "That's so cool!" And once in a while, "Can you send me a copy of the picture?"

This year (beginning next Thursday, actually) I'm going to go with a Fuji GF670. As an old-fashioned looking bellows folder I'm hoping for similar non-threatening reactions by my subjects. But this time with all of the modern features for me. And no heavy 4x5 holders to carry.

Ken

* Makes life easier for me in the darkroom.

 

[Felinik]

Compose as much as you possibly can before you even take up the camera, shoot quick, walk along as nothing has happened. Most people do not notice until after you've shot, if at all, unless you stay and fiddle around for too long.

I live in France, here it's illegal to use pictures with peoples faces in public without their explicit permission.... Lot's of people seems to know about this, so the only way to go here, unless you want pictures of people posing, is to be fast and discrete.

I wear a hat, sunglasses, and have my 35mm SLR around my neck hanging down in front of me so I look like a tourist. Perfect disguise... (plus that I am way taller than any french person I've ever met, and blond (scandinavian) so I really look like I dont belong here...).

 

[Maris]

You are deluded, they don't even notice.

cliveh is right. It's amazing what people don't register.

I have found that using a big camera on a tripod makes me transparent when doing street photography.

I set up by prefocussing and framing on an interesting spot, shop window, ticket booth, fountain, and the like, where interesting looking people may do quirky things. I watch the unfolding scene attentively but casually and I never look at anyone through the camera. Sometimes the reflection in the lens filter tells me my "target" is in the right spot. Because I fuss with the camera controls, make meter readings, occasionally press the cable release, wind the film while standing in front of the camera, no one knows (or seems to care) when I have made an exposure or who has been photographed; not even the small, easily bored, transient crowd that pauses to watch what I do!

My most "conspicuous" camera is the Mamiya RB 67, a TLR is even less visible, and the 8x10 view camera may as well not be there at all. City crowds mind their own business. If they do not perceive themselves to be in a predator/prey relationship to the guy with the camera they move on without flinching. Drunks passed out in gutters get the same treatment; they may be seen but are not looked at.

 

[batwister]

Have you considered using a telephoto? Harry Callahan did some great long lens candid photos on the street. It's also rarely done and might give you the edge on that oh-so-typical wide angle stuff.
https://d30dcznuokq8w8.cloudfront.net/works/r/pi-artfinder/0/6/0/3428-060_full_570x382.jpg

 

[benjiboy]

Have you considered using a telephoto? Harry Callahan did some great long lens candid photos on the street. It's also rarely done and might give you the edge on that oh-so-typical wide angle stuff.
https://d30dcznuokq8w8.cloudfront.net/works/r/pi-artfinder/0/6/0/3428-060_full_570x382.jpg

Street shooting with long lenses is more like spying and if you think that people sometimes react badly to normal street shooting if they catch you doing it with a long telephoto lens you'll get mobbed, and that "oh so typical wide angle stuff" has a sense of involvement that can't be obtained with long lenses.

 

[batwister]

Street shooting with long lenses is more like spying and if you think that people sometimes react badly to normal street shooting if they catch you doing it with a long telephoto lens you'll get mobbed, and that "oh so typical wide angle stuff" has a sense of involvement that can't be obtained with long lenses.

There really is no way of getting around the suspicion that people have for photographers now. Long lens or not, I think it's just a case of being forthright in your approach. Looking presentable and perhaps clean shaven helps too! Leave the trench coat at home. I have to say that the Callahan images have a unique intimacy that you don't often see in street photography. Have a look at Michael Wolf's 'Tokyo Compression' series too. The involved or 'caught in the middle of a circus' approach has been done to death, there's little left to say.

 

[ColdEye]

There really is no way of getting around the suspicion that people have for photographers now. Long lens or not, I think it's just a case of being forthright in your approach. Looking presentable and perhaps clean shaven helps too! Leave the trench coat at home. I have to say that the Callahan images have a unique intimacy that you don't often see in street photography. Have a look at Michael Wolf's 'Tokyo Compression' series too. The involved or 'caught in the middle of a circus' approach has been done to death, there's little left to say.

+1

I looked at the Tokyo Compression and it's really refreshing to see. I also agree that using telephotos for street stuff is a nice way to have a different view. From what I see now this genre is too flooded with up close and in your face pictures.

 

[Benoît99]

(...)

I live in France, here it's illegal to use pictures with peoples faces in public without their explicit permission.... Lot's of people seems to know about this, so the only way to go here, unless you want pictures of people posing, is to be fast and discrete.

"...peut-on photographier dans un lieu public ? La réponse est oui, c’est la diffusion sans autorisation de ces photos qui est interdite." http://www.eschon.com/photographie-de-rue-la-loi-en-france/

Translation: Can you take pictures in a public place? The answer is yes; it is publishing such photos without permission that is prohibited.

For more information, see the follow site on photography and the law in France:
http://blog.droit-et-photographie.com/