streak across MF negs....

[RobC]

Hewes are still in business and making hangers I think.

http://www.hewes.co.uk/

As I mentioned, I use jobo 1500 tanks now. I believe Hewes make stainless reels to fit jobo and paterson tanks.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Well, I developed a couple of rolls of FP4+ in D-76 doing a pre-soak yesterday. Still looking over the negs but the ones I've seen so far with big expansive skies have no indications of such streaks so we may have solved my issue. I'll continue the pre-soak method with more developing this week and see if it holds. Funny though these seem to have more dust than usual but I cannot see how pre-soaking would cause that issue.

Also interesting in that past threads about whether to pre-soak or not, the arguments would go on and on but I cannot recall anyone pointing out my issue in the argument or discussion.

Thanks all for taking the time to reply to this thread. Very appreciated.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Nothing special here but notice my streak-free sky! (Rolleiwide, FP4+, D-76 1-1):

 

[RobC]

well done, lets hope it stays this way.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Ok now the big question.. what do you think was the problem and what do you think fixed this problem?

Nothing special here but notice my streak-free sky! (Rolleiwide, FP4+, D-76 1-1):

 

[Sirius Glass]

Well, I developed a couple of rolls of FP4+ in D-76 doing a pre-soak yesterday. Still looking over the negs but the ones I've seen so far with big expansive skies have no indications of such streaks so we may have solved my issue. I'll continue the pre-soak method with more developing this week and see if it holds. Funny though these seem to have more dust than usual but I cannot see how pre-soaking would cause that issue.

Also interesting in that past threads about whether to pre-soak or not, the arguments would go on and on but I cannot recall anyone pointing out my issue in the argument or discussion.

Thanks all for taking the time to reply to this thread. Very appreciated.

It sounds like you solved your problem. Great.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Good question Bob. Well, since I was able to duplicate the problem even when switching from using Photoflo to LFN, which was one main suspicion, I think I knocked that out. So I truly suspect that this was from pouring developer down the sides which is what happens in pouring developer into a typical stainless steel tank. Just before this I tried the method of dropping all the reels into an already filled tank in complete darkness and that too seemed to avoid this issue too. I'm going to develop with pre-soak for the next few weeks and see if the issue is still avoided and report back. Of course now someone will chime in how they have used stainless steel tanks for xx years and never had this issue......

 

[RobC]

well not all tank lids dribble the same way so I expect mileage varies.
Pre-soak may alleviate the problem sometimes, others it won't. It depends how quickly you get all the developer into the tank and how active your particulare dev/dilution is. So don't count on pre-soak by itself being 100% effective 100% of the time.

The real answer is getting your film covered with developer as quick as possible which really doesn't require a pre-soak at all. And I think that Ilford stated somewhere that you shouldn't use pre-soak because their film contains a coating for even take up of developer which a pre-soak stops being effective and can result in uneven development.

Hey ho, each to his own. I repeat, jobo 1500 series tanks are very quick to fill. Any tank which fills quickly is good. Any tank which fills slowly is bad. Or where you lower loaded reels into a full tank is good.

 

[DWThomas]

I always tilt my stainless steel tanks about 25 degrees or so when I pour in the developer. I got accustomed to doing that because an early tank had some sort of divider vane under the lid, but my main intent is to make it easy for the air to escape. In my experience, with some of the plastic lids on a level tank, the air burping out bogs down the fill process.

As i reach full, I back off on the tilt a bit so as not to spill (though I do use quantities that leave some air space in the tank for better agitation. I'd say a fill is on the order of ten seconds and follows a very defined flow path. Combining that with developing times of 7 or 8 minutes or longer (HC110 1+63 mostly), I think results are evened out quite sufficiently. I do not presoak.

My 1.3 cents (2 after taxes),

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

I always tilt my stainless steel tanks about 25 degrees or so when I pour in the developer. I got accustomed to doing that because an early tank had some sort of divider vane under the lid, but my main intent is to make it easy for the air to escape. In my experience, with some of the plastic lids on a level tank, the air burping out bogs down the fill process.

As i reach full, I back off on the tilt a bit so as not to spill (though I do use quantities that leave some air space in the tank for better agitation. I'd say a fill is on the order of ten seconds and follows a very defined flow path. Combining that with developing times of 7 or 8 minutes or longer (HC110 1+63 mostly), I think results are evened out quite sufficiently. I do not presoak.

My 1.3 cents (2 after taxes),

That's pretty much how I do it too. And I'd say 70% I have no issues. It's that 30% of the time that ticks me off and it's always some photo with lots of sky! Perhaps some change in my technique of pouring might help, who knows. In the meantime I'll keep the variables to a minimum and only change to doing a pre-soak and hope I do not see it any more. If I do I'll revisit the issue again.

Thanks again all, VERY much appreciate everyone's thoughts.

 

[kreeger]

Well, I developed a couple of rolls of FP4+ in D-76 doing a pre-soak yesterday. Still looking over the negs but the ones I've seen so far with big expansive skies have no indications of such streaks so we may have solved my issue. I'll continue the pre-soak method with more developing this week and see if it holds. Funny though these seem to have more dust than usual but I cannot see how pre-soaking would cause that issue.

Also interesting in that past threads about whether to pre-soak or not, the arguments would go on and on but I cannot recall anyone pointing out my issue in the argument or discussion.

Thanks all for taking the time to reply to this thread. Very appreciated.

Richard, I thought in my response I was correlating your issue with pre-soak as the solution, glad to help contribute to problem solving.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Richard- Though I have a Jobo system.. I also process a lot of solarization( black and white and colour negative) in the Kodak deep tank system.. basically stainless steel buckets... I would not have any issue with this method.

In fact I processed over 200 rolls for Russell Monk Casa series which was all grey background with natural light.. basically your sky equivilent. We did not encounter any issues with streaking in the background- and no I did not use a prewash.
The only time I use pre wash is with PMK on a Jobo. For ID11 and HC110 I never use a prewash.

For this project I used stainless steel reels in a basket.. think I could do about 20 rolls at a time and I was very consistent in my process- used the Kodak method of agitation in large tank.. there was no issue about chemicals getting to the film.. If you keep findind this problem to still show itself .. and if you feel strongly its the lack of agitation or flow of chemistry to the emulsion fast enough then you may want to give this approach a try.

I have zero problem with this method... when I let assistants do this - they get bored really fast and I end up with surge issues on edges of film so its something you definately need to do yourself as you
will only be screwing yourself if you agitate improperly..
Before Jobo this was my go to method for 20 years. In fact I made extra cash at school by processing the evening runs of student film... Ahhh I was destined to be a lab rat working for others..

Bob

That's pretty much how I do it too. And I'd say 70% I have no issues. It's that 30% of the time that ticks me off and it's always some photo with lots of sky! Perhaps some change in my technique of pouring might help, who knows. In the meantime I'll keep the variables to a minimum and only change to doing a pre-soak and hope I do not see it any more. If I do I'll revisit the issue again.

Thanks again all, VERY much appreciate everyone's thoughts.

 

[Trask]

For this project I used stainless steel reels in a basket.. think I could do about 20 rolls at a time and I was very consistent in my process- used the Kodak method of agitation in large tank.. there was no issue about chemicals getting to the film.. If you keep findind this problem to still show itself .. and if you feel strongly its the lack of agitation or flow of chemistry to the emulsion fast enough then you may want to give this approach a try.

I have zero problem with this method... when I let assistants do this - they get bored really fast and I end up with surge issues on edges of film so its something you definately need to do yourself as you
will only be screwing yourself if you agitate improperly..
Before Jobo this was my go to method for 20 years. In fact I made extra cash at school by processing the evening runs of student film... Ahhh I was destined to be a lab rat working for others..

Bob

Can you describe what you mean when you say you "used the Kodak method of agitation in large tank" and how you assistants failed to use that method and produced surge marks? It would be interesting to know. Thanks.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Just remembered that I have a Jobo 2521 tank I use for developing 4x5 using a 2509N reel. Never thought about using for 35/120 as I acquired it along with a 4x5 pinhole set up and already had my complete SS set, but research just now shows me I can do 2-35mm rolls or 2-120 rolls in this tank using the right reels, which I guess are 2502 reels(?). This one does fill from the bottom-up filling from a middle core, and appears to use less chemistry per run too. Not sure I want to invest in more reels ($45 each?) though when I'm so deep in the SS system, then again maybe for my 120 films....

 

[Bob Carnie]

KODAK METHOD.
Rack into tank .. bang bang to disloge air bell.. lift out move forward position.. back into tank .. bang bang.. lift out move towards you to drain.. back into tank bang bang.. lift out move to left drain.. back in bang bang.. lift out move to right drain... back in... repeat this sequence the whole process session... Most important in developer...

WRONG METHOD

My assistants (who were all much smarter than I) would ... lift out then down bang bang... lift out then down bang bang... Standing outside the door one can tell that the drain and movement to other sides would not happen... this straight up straight down will give surge marks and uneven development... YOU WILL NOTICE THIS IMMEDIATELY WITH FILM PROCESSED THIS WAY..sorry not yelling with the caps just pointing how this can be seen.

Bob

Can you describe what you mean when you say you "used the Kodak method of agitation in large tank" and how you assistants failed to use that method and produced surge marks? It would be interesting to know. Thanks.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Alrighty. Got a hold of a JOBO 2502 reel so as to load and develop two rolls of 120 at a time in my JOBO 2521 tank (which until now I used exclusively with a 2509n reel for 4x5). After practicing every night for a week with the lights on using two old expired rolls of Shanghai GP3 and then with the same rolls as "dry runs" in the changing bag I finally braved it with a couple non-practice rolls of FP4+. Other than taking a little more time than I'd usually take to load on SS reels (which should get better with more experience) I developed them in D-76 1-1. Problem SOLVED. My skies are as even-toned and smooth as a baby's tush. Looks like I'll be doing my 120 film development this way from now on. Just loaded two more rolls of film for development (Delta 400) and the loading went much faster this time.

Rolleiwide, FP4+, D-76 1-1

 

[Sirius Glass]

Alrighty. Got a hold of a JOBO 2502 reel so as to load and develop two rolls of 120 at a time in my JOBO 2521 tank (which until now I used exclusively with a 2509n reel for 4x5). After practicing every night for a week in daylight with two old expired rolls of Shanghai GP3 and then with the same rolls as "dry runs" in the changing bag I finally braved it with a couple non-practice rolls of FP4+. Other than taking a little more time than I'd usually take to load on SS reels (which should get better with more experience) I developed them in D-76 1-1. Problem SOLVED. My skies are as even-toned and smooth as a baby's tush. Looks like I'll be doing my 120 film development this way from now on. Just loaded two more rolls of film for development (Delta 400) and the loading went much faster this time.


Rolleiwide, FP4+, D-76 1-1

Jobo processors can eliminate many problems.

 

[Rudeofus]

When I started with the Jobos, I sweated every film load, and as a result it became more and more difficult to load film. This is not a coincidence, as moisture turns gelatin into a sticky goo. Once I became relaxed about film loading, it became a swift and reliable process, both in 135 and 120 format.

The most important feature of Jobos is that you can pull back film if it becomes stuck or the front end of film slips out of the spindle.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Ok I've decided to try my Jobo tank but doing full manual rotary processing. Worked great! I adjusted time -20%. Sort of boring to roll it back and forth but I really like what I'm getting here and again, my streaky skies are a thing of the past. So far tried with FP4+, Delta 400 and Tri-X.