Strange Nikon Coolscan LS-8000 color noise

Little People

A
Little People

  • 0
  • 0
  • 51
Marseille-9.jpg

A
Marseille-9.jpg

  • 0
  • 0
  • 57
Marseille-16.jpg

A
Marseille-16.jpg

  • 0
  • 1
  • 39
Marseille-6.jpg

A
Marseille-6.jpg

  • 0
  • 0
  • 43
Marseille-5.jpg

A
Marseille-5.jpg

  • 0
  • 0
  • 44

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
180,559
Messages
2,492,016
Members
95,099
Latest member
DB26
Recent bookmarks
0

tony25

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Messages
16
Location
USA
Shooter
Multi Format
I just picked up LS-8000 scanner. I scanned slide film and I noticed strange color noise. I tried with my other Minolta 5400 II and it didn't have the issue. I am using VueScan and checked Fine mode. It seems to be noticeable when zoom in. Anyone experience the same problem? I would like to make sure that this isn't user error before I am returning the scanner to the seller. Thanks.

1668062334074.png


1668062292210.png
 

Tomro

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
Messages
53
Location
Italy
Shooter
Medium Format
I got the exact same problem. Don’t know what it is though or how to fix it
 
OP
OP

tony25

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Messages
16
Location
USA
Shooter
Multi Format
I did couple more testing. The above image is Slide. I tested with negative this time.

This is with Infrared off
1668066403434.png

and this is with infrared on:
1668066438202.png


Turning on and off on slide (provia above) doesn't help much.
 

brbo

Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
734
Location
EU
Shooter
Multi Format
Have you tried it with Silverfast (I believe they have a demo version) or Nikonscan?
 

brbo

Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
734
Location
EU
Shooter
Multi Format
Do you get the same pattern regardless of the scanning resolution? Does it stay the same if you enable multi sampling (like 2x, 4x..)?
 

Tomro

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
Messages
53
Location
Italy
Shooter
Medium Format
Do you get the same pattern regardless of the scanning resolution? Does it stay the same if you enable multi sampling (like 2x, 4x..)?

as far as I remember it is independent of scanning resolution: I normally scan at 4000dpi, but I remember seeing it also at 2000. Never tried multi sampling
 

brbo

Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
734
Location
EU
Shooter
Multi Format
Thing is that this looks like some sort of electrical interference (time-dependant based on the pattern) and I'd guess that changing resolution or multisampling would also change the pattern...

Have you tried using the scanner in a different location, with different FW cable...? But then again, the pattern isn't visible on negatives.
 

Tomro

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
Messages
53
Location
Italy
Shooter
Medium Format
while I'm not the OP, I did test the scanner in 3 different locations, one even 300km away from the other. 2 different FW cables, on a Mac mini, a Windows 10 PC.
Pattern has nothing to do with the negatives, unfortunately
 

brbo

Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
734
Location
EU
Shooter
Multi Format
I meant that the OP shows scans of slide film with visible pattern and a scan of negative film that doesn't have the pattern.

I'm clearly out of ideas, but curious if your scanner was always like that or did it develop the problem with time?
 
OP
OP

tony25

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Messages
16
Location
USA
Shooter
Multi Format
Sorry, for the confusion. The pattern is still there on negative but it's less obvious. If you look at the second negative image where I have ICE (infrared setting on Vue) on, the pattern is obvious in the film edge (white area). When I turned off, it looks much better , but if I added sharpen, I start to see it again.
 
OP
OP

tony25

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Messages
16
Location
USA
Shooter
Multi Format
um.. I didn't try multiple scanning passes. I did try multi-exposure only to slightly increase the issue. I can try multiple sampling tonight. Just curious, what can be the issue that multiple scanning passes help?
 
OP
OP

tony25

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Messages
16
Location
USA
Shooter
Multi Format
I did 8x sampling and it seems to be more obvious:
1668179484686.png
 

runswithsizzers

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 19, 2019
Messages
945
Location
sw mo
Shooter
35mm
RE: "I did 8x sampling..."

I have found multiple sampling to be somewhat effecive in reducing noise on underexposed areas of film. The improvement at 2x was noticeable. At 3x there was some additional improvement that was discernable; I did not see anything at 4x to justify the extra time.

However, what you are showing here looks a lot different from what I call noise. When I see noise on underexposed film, the pattern is a random distribution of faintly colored dots. I agree with others who suggest your regular, moire-like pattern seen on the slides looks like it might be some kind of electrical interference.

While it is probably not the cause of your problem, I have noticed different sharpening routines can magnify some undesirable scanning artifacts. If you have good post processing software, my advice would be to not let your scanning software do any sharpening. Chances are, you will have more control and get better results when sharpening with something like Photoshop.
 
Last edited:

brbo

Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
734
Location
EU
Shooter
Multi Format
If you make multiple scans of the same negative with the same settings do all have exactly the same patter or does it shift left/right/up/down? Then changing multisampling settings (and again doing multiple subsequent scans), do you see exactly the same pattern in the same place. You obviously don't have to scan entire frame, just a small part where the problem is most prominent.

Probably won't help, but if you are desperate enough, clean the scanner inside, unplug and plug again every connector... CS-8000 is easy to get inside. If you have Facebook show your scans in "Orphaned Scanners" group. Groups.io group for coolscan scanners if not very frequented anymore.
 

cramej

Subscriber
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Messages
1,159
Shooter
Multi Format
For those having difficulty seeing the pattern:

1668179484686.png
 
OP
OP

tony25

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Messages
16
Location
USA
Shooter
Multi Format
Based on what I understood about electrical noise, it should be more gaussian random. I can see pattern for each motor stepped here (so, I incline to think that this is not really noise). I joined Nikon Coolscan facebook group last night (they actually have very good info around these scanners). One of the post stated that this may be due to CCD wearing out, though, the pattern seems to not exact what I and cramaj have.

Updated: Look like the group has some fix by replacing A/D capacitors. In case, you have problem and handy with electronics.
 
Last edited:

Tomro

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
Messages
53
Location
Italy
Shooter
Medium Format
I t
Based on what I understood about electrical noise, it should be more gaussian random. I can see pattern for each motor stepped here (so, I incline to think that this is not really noise). I joined Nikon Coolscan facebook group last night (they actually have very good info around these scanners). One of the post stated that this may be due to CCD wearing out, though, the pattern seems to not exact what I and cramaj have.

Updated: Look like the group has some fix by replacing A/D capacitors. In case, you have problem and handy with electronics.

I too am member of that group but didn't see the post. Could you elaborate what should or could be replaced?
 
OP
OP

tony25

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2021
Messages
16
Location
USA
Shooter
Multi Format
@Tomro There is PDF (LS-8000 Zig-zag banding - cause & cure). This is the link to the thread.

 

Tomro

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
Messages
53
Location
Italy
Shooter
Medium Format
@tony25 thanks so much! While I can't access the linked file in your post I was able to find it under the name on Facebook.
Seems straight forward, just need to find the capacitors and learn how to solder :D
 

BMbikerider

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2012
Messages
2,383
Location
UK
Shooter
35mm
Rather than show us a hugely enlarged sample can we see if we can detect anything at normal image size say no larger than A3.

My 35mm Nikon scanner will give sharper results at up to A3 than those you have shown and any colour shift is down to operator error. We really need to se the whole scan rather than a tiny portion of it. What is shown here is like posting an image of a underexposed area where the remainder of the image is perfectly OK

Is the perceived problem something more basic like the medium you are scanning was originally taken in a light which was not a correct colour balance. Was it slide film or colour negative film, that may be the problem not the scanner. Was there a mix of daylight and artificial light from one or more sources?
 

koraks

Moderator
Joined
Nov 29, 2018
Messages
4,551
Location
Europe
Shooter
Multi Format
What is shown here is like posting an image of a underexposed area where the remainder of the image is perfectly OK

The kind of noise shown here is problematic by all means. It's not supposed to be there, and it will show up on larger prints or digital enlargements.

Is the perceived problem something more basic like the medium you are scanning was originally taken in a light which was not a correct colour balance.

Have a look at the pattern; the conclusion that it was electrical noise likely from the stepper motors interfering with the sensitive A/D conversion circuitry sounds really plausible to me. I'd replace the power supply decoupling caps at the A/D chip(s) and check all electrolytics as well.
 

Tomro

Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2022
Messages
53
Location
Italy
Shooter
Medium Format
Are there any other online stores in Europe other than mouser that offer the parts needed to be replaced?
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab
Top Bottom