Strange light leak from enlarger

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kmallick

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Notice how the bellows show up in the two pictures. They would be pitch black if they didn't reflect. It's images of the bellows that you see. Light goes down through the negative and bounces off the inside of the lens stage which "lights up" the flats of the bellows.

Thats what I was suspecting too. But with the enlarger on, negative in the stage and room dark I tried poking and moving the bellows up and down from outside from different sides to see if that would move or shake the stray lines. It didn't.

The bellows do show up in the two pictures when there is no negative and the opening "lights up" the flats of the bellows. I don't see the parallel lines reflecting off the bellows when I have the negative in. I see just 4 stray lines in a square pattern no matter what size of negative I put in, 6x4.5, 6x6 or 6x7.

However when I mask half of the negative off, the stray lines disappear from one side. This definitely points to the fact that the light is reflecting off of some edge on the negative stage, doesn't it?
 
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kmallick

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More update.

A mask with flat black craft paper that closes the opening in the negative stage (below the carrier) by 1/8 inch on each side significantly reduced the intensity of stray lights. Making the opening of the mask any smaller encroaches into the projected image from 6x7 negative.

20120630233915-6bba7f91-me.jpg
 

M. Lointain

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I think the problem you are facing is that the surface of the bellows is not dark enough and they are narrow enough for the lens to "see" the reflection off of them. Four suggestions for you that should solve your problem.

1-Make a mask like the one you have there but put it down inside the bellows inside the second or third fold under the neg.
2-Make a type of reverse lens hood by simply wrapping a length of paper around the rear of the lens forming a tube that sticks up toward the negative.
3-You may want to get some flat black fabric paint and paint the inside of the bellows with it.
4-A better alternative to the paint would be to get some telescope flocking and apply it to the edges of the inside of the bellows.

If I had your problem I would go the flocking route. I would rather absorb the stray light than simply try to block it. Telescope flocking absorbs over 99% of the light that hits it. When you hold it in your hand it is like looking at a black hole, I kid you not. I have a ton of it and i would be happy to send you some if you need it.

edit-Looking back after having written this, I think your best bet would be to do the first thing I suggested and cover the mask with flocking. I would eat my shorts if that didn't work. :confused:
 

Ian C

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This is a fascinating problem. I tried some experiments with my Omega B66XL dichroic enlarger to gain some insight. I chose this machine because it is of a similar size to the LPL/Saunders 6700 dichroic enlarger. Each test was done without any safelights on to maximize my ability to see any stray light.

First, I installed an empty 35mm negative carrier and a 50mm f/4 EL Nikkor and focused the image of the edge of the carrier onto the baseboard. I saw nothing but the image of the illuminated window of the carrier.

Next, I placed an empty 6 x 6cm carrier and an 80mm f/5.6 EL Nikkor in the enlarger and focused the image of the carrier opening as before. It took a second or two to realize that there was an extremely faint set of concentric squares, possibly 3 or 4, surrounding the main image. Clearly, I was seeing the image of light reflected by the inner folds of the topmost portion of the bellows. The 80mm lens throws a large enough circle towards the film to “see” the highlights reflected from the bellows.

I generally reserve this machine for 35mm enlarging, but I have used it occasionally for 6 x 6cm work. I hadn’t previously noticed the projection of the squares.

Next, I put an average-density 6 x 6cm negative into the carrier. With the aperture wide open on the 80mm lens at f/5.6 I didn’t initially see anything outside of the projected image. However, after 10 seconds or so my dark vision gained enough sensitivity to barely make out the brightest line nearest the front. I could no longer distinguish full squares. This was so dim as to be close to the limit of my ability to perceive it. Closing the aperture to f/8 made it much harder to find. At f/11 it was almost imperceptible. On my B66, the effect was only noticeable without a negative in the carrier. When I put the negative in, it was quite hard to locate the spurious light at the baseboard.

It’s obvious that on my B66 this is caused by the longer lens seeing the illuminated edges of the folds in the bellows due to the size of the pickup circle towards the negative. The 50mm lens can’t see the folds due to its smaller pickup circle (even though both lenses have similar angles of view).

The only way to totally eliminate this is to choose an enlarger with bellows sufficiently large enough that the lens can’t see the bellows or the edges of the opening in the negative stage. For example, an 80mm lens is unlikely to see the reflections of the bellows or negative stage of a 4” x 5” or bigger enlarger.

This is likely inescapable for enlargers with bellows just big enough for the largest format for which they were designed when using the longest lenses for that format. The upper parts of the bellows and, in some cases, the negative stage opening are visible to the lens. Bright reflections are necessarily projected to the baseboard, even if only dimly.

Regarding Post #26, I agree that replacing the temporary black paper mask with one made of the most light-absorbing black cloth, such as felt, velvet, or whatever you can find will reduce the effect as much as possible.

Ultimately, it doesn’t matter. The miniscule amount of light in the projection of the bellows folds or of the edges of the opening in the negative stage falls well outside of the enlarging paper and is, therefore, irrelevant.
 

ic-racer

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The only way to totally eliminate this is to choose an enlarger with bellows sufficiently large enough that the lens can’t see the bellows or the edges of the opening in the negative stage.

The rear element lens sees everything you can see when you look up in the bellows with the lens off. The 'theoretical problem' here is flare on that rear element. You can just ignore it as it is highly unlikely to cause any effect in printing (unless one has a foggy lens). In addition to Ian's suggestion, if one wanted to eliminate any chance of flare on that rear element one could also rig a compendium shade over the rear element. But nobody does this, no manufacture recommends this and it is not needed. I'd spend my time making sure the enlarger is aligned. Enlarger alignment is an art that can take some skill to perfect.
 
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kmallick

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I made a temporary mask consisting of 2 L-shaped parts that forms a square opening and that fits just above the first folds of the bellows. This pretty much got rid all of the stray lights. I just need to find the right flocking material that will fit in that space and I need to cut it square to very precise dimensions because its tricky to fit the mask in between the folds.

I feel much better now that I could identify the source of the problem, thanks to everyone's input. :whistling:
 

paul ron

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Put a lens cap on n then inspect everyting to find your light leak. Use a mirror under the lens to inspect where it may be leaking as well. There just may be a srew missing n the stray light is coming from the hole.. you'd be surprised.

Blackening the edges of the negative carrier is very important as is blackening the edges of the easel n the enlarger's base board, see there are no reflection off the walls near or behid your enlarger. Any reflections or leaks will cause havoc.

OH I also found my timmer's green glow in the dark face was causing fog so I put a red filter over it.

Once you get rid of all your leaks n reflections, you are home free n will have nothing else to do. THis little crap keeps us busy.
 
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kmallick

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Put a lens cap on n then inspect everyting to find your light leak. Use a mirror under the lens to inspect where it may be leaking as well. There just may be a srew missing n the stray light is coming from the hole.. you'd be surprised.

Blackening the edges of the negative carrier is very important as is blackening the edges of the easel n the enlarger's base board, see there are no reflection off the walls near or behid your enlarger. Any reflections or leaks will cause havoc.

OH I also found my timmer's green glow in the dark face was causing fog so I put a red filter over it.

Once you get rid of all your leaks n reflections, you are home free n will have nothing else to do. THis little crap keeps us busy.

I appreciate your advice. But I don't think you read the posts in the thread before posting.
 

paul ron

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Well I did read your initial post n SOME of the answers offered throughout the pages with your comebacks.

I really can'st see where your mysterious lines are coming from except you are using an 80mm lens for 6x6 n 645 where a 75mm is more appropiate.

BTW The "lines" you refer to are the non-image bars outside the framed area which look like slots in the easel blades? Get a 75mm lens n tell me if your problem goes away?

Are you in NYC?.. PM me, come over n pick up my 75mm n give it a try?

EDIT: Something just hit me.. do you need to adjust your condensers for different formats?

.
 
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kmallick

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I owe a final update. Hopefully it benefits someone having the same problem in the future.

Two L-shaped masks made from flocking material, tucked above the first fold of the bellow provided the best solution to eliminate the stray lights. Here is a picture of the mask:

20120712235753-5dbce913.jpg

And here is a view of the projected image from a 6x7 negative. No stray lines of light visible after putting the masks inside the bellows.

20120712235754-048145a4.jpg
 

paul ron

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So the "leak" was reflected light bouncing off the edges of the bellows? I don't understand why the negative carrier wasn't acting as a mask.

Glad you solved the mystery.

.
 

ic-racer

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So the "leak" was reflected light bouncing off the edges of the bellows? I don't understand why the negative carrier wasn't acting as a mask.

Glad you solved the mystery.

.

The pesky illuminated portion of the bellows is between the negative carrier and the lens. His mask blocks the light to or from (I can't tell by the picture) that area and solved the problem. His mask is flocked and does not project an image.

Enlargers are not perfect and I suspect most good printers have a few modifications or tweaks to optimize performance. Thanks for sharing.
 
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