Stop Bath.. How important?

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Donald Qualls

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You know, if you use water stop (for film) poorly enough and long enough, and have converted to alkaline fixer, it raises the question whether your fixer will become a monobath before it's too exhausted to cleawr your film...
 

Ian Grant

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You know, if you use water stop (for film) poorly enough and long enough, and have converted to alkaline fixer, it raises the question whether your fixer will become a monobath before it's too exhausted to cleawr your film...

The late PE - Ron Mowrey - posted more than once that you needed to use an acid stop bath after development when using an Alkali fixer. He noted that he had personally seen dichroic fog when testing Alkali fixers with just a water rinse. This was when he was working on TF2, 3, & 4.

The level of Thiosulphate in any fixer is far too high for any developer carry-over to create a Monobath, the staining and dichroic fogging will be very noticeable. I did quite a lot of research and practical testing of Monobaths in the 70s/80s for an applied application.

Ian
 

Sirius Glass

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Water stop & TF3 fixer you can mix yourself. Support your local/regional/national photographic chemical supply outlets 👍

TF3, TF4 and TF5 do not use stop bath, only water
 
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Sirius Glass

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Wow, we're nearing the 20 year marl on this thread! Short answer: film no, paper yes (only to keep the fixer alive longer).

Wow, we're nearing the 20 year marl on this thread! Short answer: film YES, paper yes (only to keep the fixer alive longer).
 

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SchwinnParamount

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My thread will never end as long as the OGs (original gangsters) are alive and stop bath (as expensive as it is) is in question.
 

MurrayMinchin

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Well, speaking for myself, I would say it's really important to *not* stop bathing. It could take a couple days or more, but my wife would eventually have an opinion on the matter.
 
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SchwinnParamount

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Well, speaking for myself, I would say it's really important to *not* stop bathing. It could take a couple days or more, but my wife would eventually have an opinion on the matter.
I just breathed my beer through my nose. Never read a funny comment while sipping your beer!
 

MurrayMinchin

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I just breathed my beer through my nose. Never read a funny comment while sipping your beer!
Put your beer down for a second...

When I was a kid a friend of mine managed to get part of his peanut butter & banana sandwich through his nose.

He cried.

The rest of us laughed our heads off.
 

Dennis S

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Yep. Which is why I'm with you. The water stop guys are so out of touch.

Out of touch with reality.? Only used water stop for the last 5 yrs with no problems but the water here is very soft so that maybe a problem to some and water the same temp as developer rinse 2x.
 
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Sirius Glass

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Out of touch with reality.? Only used water stop for the last 5 yrs with no problems but the water here is very soft so that maybe a problem to some.

False economy because the fixer life is shorter.
 

Donald Qualls

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water the same temp as developer rinse 2x.

Do some inversions, and you're getting close to an Ilford film wash -- which, with only three tanks full of water, will give archival washing of film. Seems like two or three rinses with progressively increasing inversion count might substitute for stop bath -- though the time that takes argues in favor of thirty seconds in an acid stop.
False economy because the fixer life is shorter.
There shouldn't be enough carry-over to affect the fixer if you do two or three tanks of water with inversions, like a short Ilford wash.
 

Sirius Glass

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Do some inversions, and you're getting close to an Ilford film wash -- which, with only three tanks full of water, will give archival washing of film. Seems like two or three rinses with progressively increasing inversion count might substitute for stop bath -- though the time that takes argues in favor of thirty seconds in an acid stop.

There shouldn't be enough carry-over to affect the fixer if you do two or three tanks of water with inversions, like a short Ilford wash.

Maybe so, but most people do not and will not do three wash cycles.
 

Tim Stapp

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As Sirius Glass has said more than once: Stop bath, whether Ilford,Kodak or dime store vinegar is sooooo expensive: why not???

Save your fixer.
 
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Out of touch with reality.? Only used water stop for the last 5 yrs with no problems but the water here is very soft so that maybe a problem to some and water the same temp as developer rinse 2x.
With reality?? Never said such a thing.
Only, out of touch with simple home economics. As Steve said, stop bath is cheap cheap cheap cheap cheap cheap cheap cheap. Fixer is only cheap cheap. Buy the stop and save your fixer.
 

Donald Qualls

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Indicator stop bath from Kodak (haven't priced Ilford, but I'd be surprised if it was a lot different) is cheaper to use than white vinegar in the gallon jug from the supermarket -- and with the indicator, you can reuse the stop bath with confidence; as long as it's yellow, it's good (with white vinegar, you need to keep track of usage or have a pH meter to be sure it's still acidic).
 

Sirius Glass

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Indicator stop bath from Kodak (haven't priced Ilford, but I'd be surprised if it was a lot different) is cheaper to use than white vinegar in the gallon jug from the supermarket -- and with the indicator, you can reuse the stop bath with confidence; as long as it's yellow, it's good (with white vinegar, you need to keep track of usage or have a pH meter to be sure it's still acidic).

And the pH meter cost money too.
 
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