Stick with 6x6 or try 645?

[Alan Gales]

I'm not saying cropping is wrong or taboo, I know it's done quite often. Just not by me. I'm with Nathan on this. Looking at a square and planning rectangle just doesn't feel right to me. I'm sure that I'm being nonsensical and irrational here, but I'm only human.

I would never dismiss a photograph because it's been cropped, I just don't prefer to do it myself is all.

You are perfectly normal. A lot of people feel the same way as you.

This actually makes it easy. Do you prefer your final image to be square or rectangular? Buy a camera that fits your preference.

 

[EASmithV]

If you want to stick with a TLR go with the 'cord. Otherwise, go with a Hasselblad 500C/M. Its much more versitile, if slightly more complex. They also have 645 backs for it. If you get a 645 only camera, you'll always be wanting that 6x6 option... I have a 124G like you did, and got the Hassy on a spur of the moment decision. It's now my favorite camera, which makes my F6 very sad.

And with regards to the above post... I LOVE the sound of the Hassy shutter

To each their own, but you need to find out what your own is.

A benefit of the Hassy is you can focus much closer, and the viewfinder is extremely bright even with f/4 lenses. Compared to the Yashica WLF, there is no comparison...

 

[warden]

And with regards to the above post... I LOVE the sound of the Hassy shutter

hehe, yes I know there's no accounting for my aversion to the Hassy ker-pow when it shoots. You know what sound I really do like with the hassy though - the wonderful sound it makes when you advance to the next frame. It just has that sound of, I don't know, mechanical goodness. It's pretty sweet.

 

[Alex Muir]

I got a 'cord Vb last year to upgrade from a Seagull. It's a great camera and quite discreet when out on the street, but the fixed lens is limiting. I am sure, however, that its no better in any respect than your 124G. It also needed the film transport and shutter repaired which cost nearly as much as the camera. Having used the square format regularly now for a year or so, I bought a Bronica SQ to allow me to use various lenses. It is far more precise in its operation than the Rollei, and much more versatile with interchangeable lenses. I agree with other advice; keep using and enjoying your 124G until it breaks, or no longer suits your photography.

 

[polyglot]

Option C) keep the Yashica until it's limiting you in some way. And then look at 6x7

 

[tkamiya]

Option D) forget finding justification..... just get it and enjoy.

 

[Roger Cole]

I have a Yashicamat 124 and a Mamiya 645 Pro, so I have the camera you have (well, almost - your G has gold plated contacts for flash, more black and less chrome, and different internal gears, but they work the same and the lens is the same) and one you're considering.

The things to ask yourself are what you don't like about the TLR and what you hope to gain from going to 645. From what you say, the TLR is going to suit your style (street shooting with WLF) much better than the 645. The Yashica is much smaller and handier, easier to carry around. The 645 Pro and Pro-TL, but not the earlier 645 and 1000s models, offers mid roll film changes with film backs. All of then offer the option of exposure automation with the AE prism finder and film advance with the winder grip (I have both) and interchangeable lenses. Do you need or really want these things? And do you need or want them badly enough to give up the square format, the quiet operation, and the size and weight of the Yashicamat? I don't personally consider a WLF very viable for a 645 camera because I mix a lot of landscape and portrait shooting, but that's just me. Oh yes - the inserts for the 645 are easier and quicker to load than the Yashicamat and you can carry several pre-loaded making film loading even faster in the field. Combined with the 15 shots per roll this might matter if you tend to shoot a lot.

I actually enjoy shooting more with the Yashicamat and its simplicity. The Mamiya is far more versatile and much like shooting with an overgrown automated 35mm SLR.

 

[Roger Cole]

Oh yes, I crop if the photo is improved by it, but do tend to compose with the frame at hand if possible. And the Yashicamat is a great little camera, not a toy in any sense. It's not a Rollei, but nothing but a Rollei is. I may get a nice Rollei some day but I'm in no hurry about it. I like my Yashicamat.

 

[EASmithV]

hehe, yes I know there's no accounting for my aversion to the Hassy ker-pow when it shoots. You know what sound I really do like with the hassy though - the wonderful sound it makes when you advance to the next frame. It just has that sound of, I don't know, mechanical goodness. It's pretty sweet.

yeah... the Yashica Mat sounds like a rock tumbler

 

[MFstooges]

If you started to learn photography from digital then I suggest to take a deep breath and start to work in reaaaaally slow pace. What matters are the film and the lens, cameras are just light box. There are no pixel peepers, measurbators, or lcd chimpers. Don't use the digital mindset of 'pricier is better/cheaper is toy' or 'newer is better' because film photography is already matured. And there will be no upgrades in film photography gear since basically you are moving from one dinosaur to another

 

[dpt2014]

Thanks for the two cents, Roger. It's not that I'm not happy with 6x6 at all. In fact, I'm extremely happy with it. It's not that I'm looking to gain anything from the m645 that I'm missing from the 124G. Rather, I'm just looking to experience something different.

Some schools of thought may say that I should learn to master 6x6 before moving on, but I don't think I'll ever really master it. I can only hope to ever become proficient in it - I believe that I'll always be a student of photography as there is always something new to learn. That said, I would like to learn about 6x4.5.

 

[dpt2014]

If you started to learn photography from digital then I suggest to take a deep breath and start to work in reaaaaally slow pace. What matters are the film and the lens, cameras are just light box. There are no pixel peepers, measurbators, or lcd chimpers. Don't use the digital mindset of 'pricier is better/cheaper is toy' or 'newer is better' because film photography is already matured. And there will be no upgrades in film photography gear since basically you are moving from one dinosaur to another

I readily accept that film has a steeper learning curve. But that's a fantastic, and hilarious, point. One dinosaur to another...priceless!

 

[tkamiya]

On more serious note...

How large do you intend to print and how important is extreme sharpness and detail? I started with 35mm, went to 645, briefly did 6x6, then went to 6x8. To me, 645 didn't offer the kind of improvement I was hoping to get over 35mm. To me, 645 gear I had, (Mamiya 645Super and Pro) felt more like an over-sized 35mm gear. Going to 6x8 (Mamiya RB) is a whole different experience.

If you are into experiencing different things and learning, here's another option.

I did have a Rolleicord V for about a year. It was a fantastic camera but TLR wasn't for me.

 

[Bill Burk]

dpt2014,

I am also a non-cropper, whatever I shoot, I print full-frame with dirty black border. So I'm not going to suggest you crop. Just want to point out that if you do crop, you never have to rotate the 6x6 camera to go from horizontal to vertical, and you can crop tightly to home in on a subject instead of changing lenses or walking closer. It's a major advantage of the format for the people who crop.

You might also find that the "signature" of the pictures you get with the Yashica become part of the aesthetic that you can accept as your own. I don't know... Roger Cole maybe you know, does it have a charming "signature" (like a Ricohflex) that betrays it's not a Rolleiflex but is beautiful in its own right?

 

[dpt2014]

The clarity and resolution of medium format over 35mm aren't really advantages for me (yet). Everyone has been saying how shooting portrait is basically impossible with a WLF on the m645, but the WLF is exactly why I got into MF. It's the experience of shooting with a WLF that I'm after. I really enjoy the perspective shooting from waist level gives me. And that's what photography is all about, to me at least. That is, the experience and joy of shooting.

Sharpness and detail are important to me to the extent that my photos effectively portray the story or message I'm trying to get across. I'm not a pixel peeper (at least not with film.

I've considered the m645 vs r(b/z)67. While I am interested in 6x7, it's not something I want to get into yet. I head those bodies are even heavier and more cumbersome than the m645.

 

[MattKing]

I've considered the m645 vs r(b/z)67. While I am interested in 6x7, it's not something I want to get into yet. I head those bodies are even heavier and more cumbersome than the m645.

Yes, quite a bit bigger and more cumbersome, until you want to shoot using a waist-level finder and portrait orientation, when suddenly they are much less cumbersome then a Mamiya 645.

 

[tkamiya]

Oh, yeah.... RB IS heavy.... (and I really like it) It's surprisingly hand-holdable once I attach an L bracket.

I've never heard portrait being impossible with WLF. I love taking portraits and I use WLF. I find chasing kids impossible with it but for anything else, it's actually more fun. I think WLF gives me an advantage of being able to see the finish product in a way prism finder can't.

Anyway, good luck with your search.

I take a different position about equipment. I LOVE using different equipment. It's part of the fun. So I don't really justify my purchases anymore.

 

[derwent]

Yes, they are heavier and bulkier....but probably not by as much a you think.
Also insanely good value right now (having played with one it's probably my next purchase...) and all the versatility you could want.
Monopod might be a good idea though....

Honestly I would make a 645 mask and drop it in your viewfinder, go out and shoot a couple of rolls framing with the mask, then crop to 645.
See if you like it or not.

I am with you on how sweet a TLR is to use, and I rarely crop, so I think you're more likely to go with continued TLR.
if you do, get a Rollei, you won't regret it.
Unless you get a bad one....
Don't buy of eBay because 90% of the ones on there have issues.
I got mine from a bloke who bought nearly a dozen over a period from eBay and all had to be at least cleaned and adjusted, Half of them have needed a fl strip and reshimming or broken parts replaced etc.
But a Rollei in good nick is a jewel....

Only downsides are
- only one lens (unless you pony up for a telerollie and a widerollei as well!!! $$$$$$$$$$$$$)
- no interchangeable backs
- no meter unless you get a late Flex ($$$)

Otherwise lovely.

 

[Roger Cole]

Thanks for the two cents, Roger. It's not that I'm not happy with 6x6 at all. In fact, I'm extremely happy with it. It's not that I'm looking to gain anything from the m645 that I'm missing from the 124G. Rather, I'm just looking to experience something different.

Some schools of thought may say that I should learn to master 6x6 before moving on, but I don't think I'll ever really master it. I can only hope to ever become proficient in it - I believe that I'll always be a student of photography as there is always something new to learn. That said, I would like to learn about 6x4.5.

Well if you can afford it and you want to try it, what are you asking us for? Just do it!

I shoot 35mm, 6x4.5, 6x6, and 4x5 with an occasional shot on 6x7 via a roll film back in my 4x5 camera. I enjoy them all.

 

[Roger Cole]

Yes, quite a bit bigger and more cumbersome, until you want to shoot using portrait orientation, when suddenly they are much less cumbersome then a Mamiya 645.

Howzat? My 645 is quite easy and natural to use for verticals. Granted no revolving back like an RB but it's easy to shoot verticals with the prism finder. I don't even have a WLF and don't see much point in one for a 645. With the prism portrait orientation is at least as easy as it is with any 35mm.

 

[MattKing]

Howzat? My 645 is quite easy and natural to use for verticals. Granted no revolving back like an RB but it's easy to shoot verticals with the prism finder. I don't even have a WLF and don't see much point in one for a 645. With the prism portrait orientation is at least as easy as it is with any 35mm.

Sorry for the lack of clarity - I was referring to using either camera with a waist-level finder. I've since corrected it.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Well this little thread certainly took flight fairly quickly... 5 pages in 16 hours! Phew! y'all must be tired! LOL


I say you do what I have done. Buy whatever formats you can afford. I started with a Nikon FM in August of 2011 because I was familiar with 35mm. After a month or two I bought a Mamiya TLR and tried 6x6. Then I went to a Hasselblad. Last week I purchased a 4x5 to try a little large format. In between all of those I've also picked up a few box cameras like the Certo Phot's, and Kodak Brownies, and also an F100 for a little more modern conveniences.

I find myself gravitating towards 35mm the most, but I still enjoy shooting the 6x6 format just as much. Maybe I'll enjoy LF more than any of them, and maybe I wont. But I wont know until I try...

Buy what you can afford, try what you buy, and make a decision once you've made your own experiences.

 

[dpt2014]

Yes, quite a bit bigger and more cumbersome, until you want to shoot using a waist-level finder and portrait orientation, when suddenly they are much less cumbersome then a Mamiya 645.

My point is that I rarely find my self shooting portrait orientation. Now, maybe this is something I'll learn to appreciate and do eventually, but not for now.

Oh, yeah.... RB IS heavy.... (and I really like it) It's surprisingly hand-holdable once I attach an L bracket.

I've never heard portrait being impossible with WLF. I love taking portraits and I use WLF. I find chasing kids impossible with it but for anything else, it's actually more fun. I think WLF gives me an advantage of being able to see the finish product in a way prism finder can't.

Anyway, good luck with your search.

I take a different position about equipment. I LOVE using different equipment. It's part of the fun. So I don't really justify my purchases anymore.

Sorry, I think there may be some confusion. We're talking about portrait orientation - not portraits.

 

[Thomas Bertilsson]

About cropping - if you're like me and can't see horizontal lines and vertical lines and compose them as straight in the viewfinder, you have to crop. If I printed 90% of my negatives full frame they'd be crooked. So I have to have a very relaxed attitude towards it. But the general idea should be: do what you want with your negs. Cropping isn't exactly a sin. Whatever the picture demands is a good idea.

Besides, if you shoot 6x6 and crop to 3:4 ratio, you support film sales because you use more film per frame...

I guess it boils down a little bit to what you're trying to achieve with your photography. If you're interested in using different cameras to make your works of art then you should. If you're only interested in the pictures, and the camera is nothing more than a transmission chamber, then the camera shouldn't matter so much. If you're interested in both, you have to think long and hard about what's most important.

 

[ROL]

6x6 is so square, man. Cropping.