stepper motor / PC control of emulsion making

[Kirk Keyes]

So Ray, your syringe pump takes, as example, a disposable plastic syringe, and it depresses it to dispense until you stop it or it bottoms out, right?

The hiccups are due to the flexing of the plastic plunger head momentarily catching the walls of the syringe and then releasing abruptly? Glass with teflon plunger head syringes could be use and they should have less of this catch/slip action. Even glass syringes with glass plungers could be used. If you can find the size you wanted, but they may be more costly and hard to find.

 

[Kirk Keyes]

...delivering unlimited continous flow using 2 syringes per reactant,
or a was it single syringe having a limited, maximum capacity?

A dual "syringe" arrangement with unlimited puming volume like I image you are talking about here seems to me to be more of pump - a dual piston pump. I don't really call them a "syringe" pump, but I suppose they could. If so, why use syringes for them, instead of fixed, permanent pistons?

 

[Kirk Keyes]

When someone says "syringe pump", this is what I think of:
http://www.syringepump.com/

OK, I they have "continuous cycle" or "continuous flow" syringe pumps that use at least two syringes. As one is dispensing, the other is being with-drawn and filling so that it's ready to dispense when the first one is done. As I said, it's a dual pistion pump that uses syringes.

There's some benefits over peristaltic pumps, like not haveing to prime the peristaltic pump to get it running.

 

[Ray Rogers]

So Ray, your syringe pump takes, as example, a disposable plastic syringe, and it depresses it to dispense until you stop it or it bottoms out, right?

The hiccups are due to the flexing of the plastic plunger head momentarily catching the walls of the syringe and then releasing abruptly?
QUOTE]

no, its all glass.
hiccups are due to change in pressure when direction is reversed.

 

[Kirk Keyes]

Ray, what volumes and rates can your syringe pump do?

 

[Kirk Keyes]

no, its all glass.
hiccups are due to change in pressure when direction is reversed.

So it's a continous flow one then?

 

[Ray Rogers]

A dual "syringe" arrangement with unlimited puming volume like I image you are talking about here seems to me to be more of pump - a dual piston pump. I don't really call them a "syringe" pump, but I suppose they could. If so, why use syringes for them, instead of fixed, permanent pistons?

The design uses syringes.
I guess there may be other reasons, but one good one is that replacement is reasonable.

They were engineered with what people had in front of them at that time, I guess.

 

[Ray Rogers]

Ray, what volumes and rates can your syringe pump do?

I will have to check.

I am out of town to attend a conference for the next two days.

When I get back I will check.

 

[Ray Rogers]

So it's a continous flow one then?

Yes.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ours were kinda like the NE1000 on the page that Kirk posted, but they were larger. I forget the flow rate range and the volumes for research and production scale, but as I said, the research syringes could be pretty big but then the scalefactor was off. Remember, scale factor was a big bugaboo for us. Every pump had to have the same allowed multiplier in a complex equation relating to scaling of each type of emulsion. The software had to keep track of all of these and warn the engineer during design phase. He could override everything, but then the emulsion could not be scaled up or down properly.

I imagine one of us will run into this problem someday as well.

PE

 

[Ray Rogers]

A dual "syringe" arrangement with unlimited puming volume like I image you are talking about here seems to me to be more of pump - a dual piston pump. I don't really call them a "syringe" pump, but I suppose they could. If so, why use syringes for them, instead of fixed, permanent pistons?

What is the difference between a syringe and a pistion?

 

[Kirk Keyes]

What is the difference between a syringe and a pistion?

Well, really none in this kind of setup.

But there are machines like High Pressure (sometimes called performance) Liquid Chromatography pumps that use ruby rods for pistons that are about 1.5 inches by 0.2 inch diameter and they cycle in and out to make a pump. They typlically can only pump one liquid stream, but they often can mix up to 4 difference solutions at variable ratios to make up that one liquid stream. They usually cycle back and forth from a few times a second to once every few seconds, depending on the flow rate needed. They can pump very low flows - from a 1/10th of a ml/min to 10 ml/min. The catch is the pumps usually need some backpressure to run. And by packpressure, they can handle 100 psi up to 4,000 or more psi.

 

[Ray Rogers]

Ray, what volumes and rates can your syringe pump do?

I am back now.

Ok, well, I checked. Without giving you a copy of the spec sheet, allow me to be creative and make you struggle

It seems I am able to deliver, approximately, as little one cup per day to as、well, more beer or expresso than you can drink in an hour, and live to tell about, for more than a couple of hours!

 

[Kirk Keyes]

I typed "convert 1 cup/day to ml/min" into google and it didn't have an answer...

 

[Ray Rogers]

Hint: Use Noggin Function

I typed "convert 1 cup/day to ml/min" into google and it didn't have an answer...

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet."

Ray

 

[Kirk Keyes]

Did Shakespeare write the owner's manual? If so, no wonder you will not give a straight answer...

 

[Ray Rogers]

Did Shakespeare write the owner's manual? If so, no wonder you will not give a straight answer...

Sorry for the misunderstanding Kirk, but honestly -
I gave you an accurate answer.

I know I am not being as transparent as possible, but then again,
Why do you want to know the exact specs of my equipment?
Isn't a fuzzy answer sufficient?

 

[Kirk Keyes]

No, I prefer specs when ever possible.

It's like if you asked for my best emulsion formula, and I said I take a scoop of AgNO3, disssolve it in a splash of water and 1 more spash of ammonia, and then added a halide to it pot, which has 3 dashes of gelatin with 15 seconds of water from my tap at full flow, and then mixed it all together. But I use really precise mixing and temps to react it.

Am I not wasting your time with a response like that? Again, aren't we here to share ideas and accurate information?

Perhaps your syringe pump can do things that I've not thought possible, and specs can give me the info to decide on my own. I was talking with a friend late last night, and he was gracious enough to look it the model number on his pump for me.

Tell you what, Ray, I'd be happy with a model number -- if that's all right with you.

 

[Ray Rogers]

No, I prefer specs when ever possible.

Do you reject the notion that some information is "confidential" ?

You gave an example above and by implication, you have set yourself up as publicly stating you will never have any information you feel confidential, or sensitive.

Is this true?
May I at any time ask for data, information and expect a rapid, clear, non-impeaded transfer of that knowledge?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ray;

I have published the information on my pump and UF equipment along with photos of the setup. I have published the calibration curve of my pump. I have not published details of formulas, but I have given details of all addenda, their concentrations and how to use them. I have published sensitizing dye sources and product #s here as well.

Anyone who comes by my home gets a full demonstration of the making and coating process - for free I might add.

Goodness, I wonder what the problem is publishing a simple part # for a syringe pump. I use my thumb with my syringes. It works just fine!

PE

 

[Kirk Keyes]

Do you reject the notion that some information is "confidential" ?

You gave an example above and by implication, you have set yourself up as publicly stating you will never have any information you feel confidential, or sensitive.

Is this true?
May I at any time ask for data, information and expect a rapid, clear, non-impeaded transfer of that knowledge?

Your commercially available pump model info is "confidential" information??

But yes, you may ask. Have I not tried to be clear and transparent with you and anyone else in the past? I will willingly share any and all info I have learned, of course, with the exception of things that I've been told that I've been asked not to share.

So Ray, are you professionally restricted from making complete disclosures? If not, why not share?

 

[Ray Rogers]

I have published sensitizing dye sources and product #s here as well.
PE

Ron;

You did mention dyes, but if I recall there was significant confusion over the exact nature of one of them... SDE8006 does not appear to exist.
There was an SDF dye however... Is SDF what your bottle says?
How do you account for the difference between what is on your label and whats on their product list?

Anyone who comes by my home gets a full demonstration of the making and coating process - for free I might add.
PE

This must be a new policy.
Unfortunately, I did not hear about it when we met in Rochester!

Goodness, I wonder what the problem is publishing a simple part # for a syringe pump. I use my thumb with my syringes. It works just fine!
PE

Do you agree that what is considered condfidential information varries between the different concerns?

Yes, of course you are right.
Mine works fine too.
Its just that I don't have a model number for it!

Since your thumb works so well, perhaps you might consider giving Kirk the model and serial numbers?

 

[Ray Rogers]

Your commercially available pump model info is "confidential" information??

Well, yes.
(but who said its available commercially?)

I will willingly share any and all info I have learned, of course, with the exception of things that I've been told that I've been asked not to share.

Why not that information too?

Your excuse for not sharing information that you have acquired is that you were told not to share it freely?
And since your behaviour in this respect is being controlled externally, you are not to be judged equally guilty of withholding information?

Give me a break!

I am sorry we dissagree, but any reason I might have to desire some level of confidentiality is just as valid as your reason!
...
Besides, the funny thing is is I did answer you... It is not that hard to reverse translate! look up what a lethal dose of coffee is and then use your noggin.

In general, the exact capabilities of my machines should not be your provenance; but I have lost too much time learning how to be diplomatic here already, so I will end this arguably invasive nonsense here and now by saying that your capacity is roughly the same as mine.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ray;

The conflict in numbers of the dyes was resolved in a series of posts by myself and Bill Winkler. He now has the dye. My data sheet, as I posted on APUG has BOTH numbers!

The week of the conference, neither of us were able to take the time to go to my home, so I brought sample pictures to the meeting to show you. I guess you have forgotten. I was at the meeting from dawn till dusk and took a short course. You spent time at GEH. I guess you have forgotten all of this.

My syringe pump model is Thumb, Human, Mark 1. My mechanical pumps have had their types and data posted here along with pictures.

I am sure that your pump works just fine and so do your emulsions. May we see a sample print or negative scan of one of your emulsions? No formula, no secret data, just a scan?

Thanks.

PE

 

[Kirk Keyes]

Besides, the funny thing is is I did answer you... It is not that hard to reverse translate! look up what a lethal dose of coffee is and then use your noggin.

I know you answered it. I hope you don't find me lazy, but it's that I prefer transparent answers to puzzles.