"Star" is asking :"How to become an analogue photographer"?

Discussion in '35mm Cameras and Accessories' started by trendland, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

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    No problem. It's all Darwinian. Everyone with their eyes glued to a cell phone or GPS crossing the street is destined to get run over. I doubt that a densitometer or light meter would be involved. I just try to keep from getting rear-ended on the freeway.
     
  2. cooltouch

    cooltouch Member

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    I don't know how I managed to miss your response. And to answer: I did the best I could regarding lenses. The original photo was shot with a Canon 50mm f/3.5 macro lens. I don't have one of those anymore. But I did have a Nikon 55mm f/3.5 macro, so I used it, reasoning that it should provide an equivalently sharp image. I probably guessed at the f/stop and used f/8. I positioned the camera/lens as best as I could determine the correct distance away from the subject, but I did not take into account the magnifying effect due to the Canon being a crop body camera. Oh well.

    To record the Fujichrome slide into a digital format, I did not use my scanner -- an Epson 4990. It's a good scanner, but Epson's quoted bloated resolution numbers aside, realistically it provides about a 2000 ppi image. Barely adequate. I used instead my Canon DSLR with my Nikon 55mm f/3.5 macro lens to dupe the slide. The Canon has a 10.1mp sensor, which provided about 2700 ppi. Not great, but better at least. And the resolution the Canon provided was sufficient to resolve the Fujichrome 100 slide's grain. Thus I felt I had a valid comparison between a film and digital image. I could try it again, this time taking into account the magnification effect of the crop-body sensor and position it a bit farther away. And these days, I can make a 4000 x 6000 ppi dupe thanks to my newer digital's 24.3mp sensor. I don't anticipate the hi-res dupe providing any more detail, however, and I fully expect the comparison to be the same, even if I shot the pic of the watch using my old 10.1mp Canon, and not my newer Sony's 24.3mp.
     
  3. trondsi

    trondsi Member

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    Perhaps the best (and most fair) comparison would be to view slide film under the loupe and the digital image on the screen, at roughly the same magnification (but of course you can't do that online :smile: ). I recently bought a 22x loupe. I can see the grain very clearly with this one. But judging from what I have seen I am convinced that if I took a modern "flagship" DSLR, made a shot, and used the same lens to make the same shot on slide film, the new DSLRs will blow film out of the water as far as pure image resolution goes. Here's a sample from Nikon's new D850. I have never seen such resolution from a 35mm film camera (I can almost count the small feathers on the bird's head):

    https://www.nikonrumors.co/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/nikon-d850-sample-image-4.jpg

    So, when I still shoot film, it isn't really because of resolution. I like the relatively simple old-fashioned cameras, the film grain, and the different colors and textures you get from using different films.
     
  4. BradS

    BradS Subscriber

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    BINGO!
    I wish more people could grasp this simple concept. All of photography does not boil down to resolution. In fact, resolution really has very little to do with it....yet resolution, megapixels, etc...seems to be the **only** thing that matters in digital photography.
     
  5. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Additionally to the point is the fact that in spite of all the huffing and puffing about resolution, until and unless a set of pixels [GRGB] are the size of film grain, the resolution can not be better than film. Period. Now add to that BradS's statement.
     
  6. faberryman

    faberryman Subscriber

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    Oh brother. When will it ever end? Seriously, who cares? Buy and shoot what you want. It is the final image that counts.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2018
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    trendland

    trendland Member

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    Resolution is a concept with giant enlargements. Without good resolution it will not work. With bad photography it will also not work. On smaler scale enlargements you have not to care about resolution.
    with regards

    PS : High resolution, extra sharp pictures, smalest grain, grainy look etc.
    make no good photography when it stands allone.
    But perfect photography with technical failures make it not more perfect.
    I guess this should be common sence since decades.
     
  8. tomfrh

    tomfrh Member

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    If digital captures more fine detail than film then it has greater resolution.
     
  9. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    ican never figure out why people are always talking about resolution ...
    most of the people who use this as some sort of argument don't enlarge their negatives very large
    10x8 max size for 35mm after that its all mush i have heard, or they use slide film and project on a screen
    which isn't very clear..
    im happy for these people because i have something to think about when i enlarge my 110 film to 16x20
    or make 11x14 / 16x20s from 35mm negatives &c .. none of these things have to do with being a "real analog photographer"
    or a "real photographer" of any type .. they just have to do with personal taste. being a "real photographer" just means someone who
    uses a camera, any kind .. and a real 'analog photographer" just means they use a camera that takes film or paper or something else ...
    and in the end, who cares about these labels ... its all done to divide and conquer
     
  10. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

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    Who cares? Just use bigger film. Well, then some Bozo replies that he can spend three months stitching seven hundred DLSR frames together and get an even bigger file. But by the same token, someone could stitch together 700 shots on 8X10 film. Astro observatories and NASA even routinely upstage all of us. Go spend a few billion dollars if you want to keep up with the Jonses'. As for me, the best camera is always the one I'm carrying at the moment.
     
  11. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    But it does not because it cannot physically be smaller than grain in today's technology.
     
  12. Theo Sulphate

    Theo Sulphate Subscriber

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    Isn't Adox CMS 20 developed in Adox developer the highest resolution film ever produced? Supposedly having resolution beyond what most lenses can deliver? If that's true, then a 24x36mm frame of such film would exceed the resolution of today's full-frame (24x36mm) sensors - which are about, what, 56MP?


    Not that any of this pixel peeping has anything to do with the value of a photograph.
     
  13. tomfrh

    tomfrh Member

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    Film does not have grain sized resolution. You need many grains to record detail.

    Modern 35mn significantly outresolves 35mm film.
     
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  15. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

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    Adox CMS 20 finest? Hahahahaha! Not even close. Hint - not all films are sold to ordinary people.
     
  16. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    yes drew, who cares ?
    i use 8x10film and 11x14 ( and bigger ) paper negatives routinely and who cares
    its not like people routinely enlarge most of any of what they photograph.. most of what people do
    is 72dpi and on a computer screen, or small reproductioins in a darkroom
    otherwise unless they are a "pro: they make large prints" ..
    regular people are not nasa or some 5000$/day commercial photographer
    people have better thngs to waste their time and efforts thinking about ...
    than the resolutoin of a digital file they are going to share with their co-worker or family member
    sure ther are dentists lawyers and "artists" who care but most people just are coat tail riders
    and say they care when they don't have a clue
     
  17. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

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    Most doctors and lawyers wouldn't know the difference between a good print and a mud pie. They're more interested in being able to afford some gold-digging blonde.
     
  18. tomfrh

    tomfrh Member

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    Adox cms 20 is much finer than the films most people use. Even adox cms 20 isn’t really a fair comparison, let alone whatever films you’re referring to.

    A fair comparison to consumer digital would be consumer films like tmax or provia.
     
  19. George Mann

    George Mann Member

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    Greater resolution of fine detail or not, I have yet to see a digital image that looks as realistic as film!
     
  20. Theo Sulphate

    Theo Sulphate Subscriber

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    A few of my prints on the wall are 16x20 and others are 8x10, but they're a small fraction of all my prints.

    Most are 4x6 and 5x7. Some of my favorites are soft images made with my pinhole camera or Pentax 110; I have more of those prints on my wall.

    Stephen Gandy's quote below accurately expresses my feelings.
     
  21. tomfrh

    tomfrh Member

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    I wouldn’t argue there.
     
  22. OP
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    trendland

    trendland Member

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    Exactly - so if a shot comarison between digital and film would identifie smal details in a background (the time of the famous tower clock) with digital AND on film you just identifie : "There might be something like a tower"
    Your digital shot is more resoluted - of coures it is !!!!!
    But how to compare ? On a screen it is THE advantage of digital ( because you have not to tranfer the medium ).
    Every test of both with final results on paper : Digital on a print / Film on a print via optical enlargement is the minimum standard to compare.
    ( often it isn´t a minimum parameter standart in tests - caused from higher costs of optical workflow with film )

    with regard

    PS A shot with fine details of a TOWER CLOCK ISN´T THE BETTER SHOT IN GENERAL - but sometimes is a question of intention.
     
  23. OP
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    trendland

    trendland Member

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    George "as realitic ", " realism " or " realistic look " is a term that might be cause more confusion here- as we see meanwhile/ up to now.
    Because this all might be questions of conceptional intentions in photography - or isn´t this true.?
    If you use HDR for example it is way of composition ( it is also possible with film - by the way ) - to higher technical parameters. But at the same time it is a tool of becoming a style
    of artificial looks. A tool to have " unrealistic " conception in photography.
    HDR is a good example from my point to cover out - NO DIFFERENCE OF DIGITAl and FILM.

    with regard

    PS : IF anybody uses the term " analogue HDR " now - I´ll shot him soon:wink:
     
  24. faberryman

    faberryman Subscriber

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    Is digital bashing allowed in an Analog thread? Now that the subject has veered off, do we need to have the moderators move this thread?
     
  25. OP
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    trendland

    trendland Member

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    You did it one time - I remember well...:mad::mad::mad::mad:

    with regards:whistling::whistling:

    PS . No intention to bash anybody is a good intention ( just from my point )
     
  26. OP
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    trendland

    trendland Member

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    Now something becomes more and more clear to me Theo - you did it with pocket 110....:whistling:

    with regards:D

    PS : One of the very very exceptions of 110 format - this extrem nice Pentax110. I was interested to buy this Pentax in 1980 or 81 ? Because of the lenses and smal dimensions.
    But it was a little expensive that time - later much more expensive because of iconic image and pure rarity:smile:
     
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