Standardizing at 75 deg F......

[Chuck_P]

.......who does it?

I have always developed film at 68 degrees F.......then developing in the summer time has always been a pain trying to get my water bath down to 68 degrees with ice cubes......I've always found that to be tedious and a turn-off. I'm thinking strongly of going ahead, now, and standardizing on a development temperature of 75 degrees F. I am wondering how many do it and is there any problems with it that I may need to know about. Thanks.

 

[NB23]

Lol, when it was 75f you cooled it down to 68 for some “standardization” Reason?

Me, i develop anywhere between 68 to 80. That is my standard.

 

[Mick Fagan]

Nope, in fact being in summer right now, all my film processing is done at 24ºC with yesterday (Friday) being the latest two sheets of FP4+.

I've been developing film for close to 30 years at this temperature in summertime when hand developing film.

During development and at the sort of halfway mark, I always take a temperature reading and work out what the rough average temperature is going to be and adjust accordingly on the fly.

 

[Paul Howell]

Over the years I've read or have been told that 68 is the optimal temp, when using a higher temperature grain is more course and developments time can be so short as tp cause issues with uneven development. I often use 70 or 72 in the summer as my tap here in the low desert is often 90+ degrees. Modern film, Tmax 100 and 400 are so fine grained I don't think using a higher temperature will be an issue. Perhaps if you are using an older film like double X movie film or Foma you might notice a difference. As long as I keep development times over say 5 to 6 minutes I have not noticed any issues with uneven development. Saying that I have used DK50 stock with a development time of 3 minutes it came out fine.

 

[Chuck_P]

Modern film, Tmax 100 and 400 are so fine grained I don't think using a higher temperature will be an issue.

I use TMax 100....good to know,I hadn't thought of impacts on grain. I just know that dev times are shorter.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Nope, in fact being in summer right now, all my film processing is done at 24ºC with yesterday (Friday) being the latest two sheets of FP4+.

I've been developing film for close to 30 years at this temperature in summertime when hand developing film.

During development and at the sort of halfway mark, I always take a temperature reading and work out what the rough average temperature is going to be and adjust accordingly on the fly.

I do not like to work with development times less than 5 minutes, so if the time gets that short I find work arounds.

 

[MattKing]

I always develop film at the ambient indoor temperature. The necessary adjustments are simple and well known. Within a reasonably wide range - 18C - 24C - the results are indistinguishable, as long as developing times are sufficiently long to not be a problem - 5 minutes being my lower limit.
I'm sure that my approach is influenced by the fact that I live in one of the most temperate areas of the world.

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

When I lived for a bit in Micronesia there was no way I could process at anything less than 83 degrees so after adjusting to FX-1 or other high dilution developers I had no problems. Most modern films have enough hardeners built in. Now back in Hawaii 73 or so seems to be my current equilibrium.

 

[TomR55]

I live in SW Florida and consider myself fortunate for those few days when I can process at 75 degrees F (24 C, which is what my thermometer shows) without a lot of fanfare. That said, during the months of January through March is not too difficult to ensure that all liquids are at 75 F at the start of the process and (hope) that they maintain that temperature throughout.

More troubling than ensuring consistent (and in-range temperatures) for developer, stop and fix, is ensuring acceptable temperatures throughout the rinse procedure. To ensure that the rinse is within acceptable limits I maintain fresh water in 1 gallon plastic containers in a cool place. I use Ilford's three inversion wash method--meaning that I avoid T-Grain films in the warmer months. This also means that I use a Hypo wash aid between the fixer (which is neutral) and the wash cycle. (It also means that I cycle "old" water out and replenish with fresh water every two weeks.)

In the summertime (which seems year round lately) I process in the house, in the evenings when the ambient temperature has maintained 75 degrees for several hours--meaning that all solutions are stable (which also means that I often process in the wee hours of the morning). In the so-called winter month (we no longer have winter that extends longer than a week or so), I process in my attached garage, which I am in the process of insulating. I intend to also purchase a portable bi-level unit once I've completed the insulation installations. Apart from several weeks, I still need to maintain the Ilford wash sequence because the water coming out of the garage tap is > 80 degrees F.

I am hopeful that given these tools I can extend my developing activities for more than two or four months out of the year (without a lot of stress).

The only real problems/complaints that I have is the lack of lots of developing data for film processing at temperatures > 68 degrees F on the various Internet sites. I do use some mathematics for performing temperature adjustments but for some developers this is more feasible than others.

 

[brian steinberger]

I have a basement darkroom and during the hottest summer months it gets no warmer then 70 degrees. So that’s what I’ve standardized on. This time of year everything is at about 60 degrees so I warm everything up to 70 degrees in a hot water bath and then keep it at temperature during processing using a medical heating pad.

 

[Maris]

I develop 8x10 sheet film in trays one sheet at a time in Xtol-R. Temperatures are chosen according to convenience and range from 33C (91.4F) with a developing time of 3min 5sec down to 14C (57F) with a development time of 20min. I have calibrated times for intermediate temperatures and the negatives come out remarkably consistent. This may be a fortunate property of Xtol-R developer so I stick to it for all films.

Roll films get developed in Paterson tanks between 28C and 18C to get longer development times. This so that any change in pour-in and pour-out timing is not so critical. Any tiny variation is easily deal with at the printing stage.

Modern black and white negative films appear to be sufficiently hardened to accommodate a wide range of developing temperatures. The important proviso is that processing solutions should be of similar temperatures to avoid thermal shock and possible reticulation.

 

[aparat]

When I was working on calibrating my process, I tried developing at 78F, which I considered a reasonable temperature on a hot day in an air-conditioned darkroom. I was getting increased fogging with D76, if I remember correctly. I will try to find my notes. It was a while back.

 

[Chuck_P]

When I was working on calibrating my process, I tried developing at 78F, which I considered a reasonable temperature on a hot day in an air-conditioned darkroom. I was getting increased fogging with D76, if I remember correctly. I will try to find my notes. It was a while back.

So increased fogging with D-76 at 78F..........I'm curious if it was it am alarming amount of additional fogging, to the point of problematic?

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, in one section of f the D-76 datasheet:

The development recommendations for the other films listed all have 24C/75F at the top end.
With T-Max developer (and the discontinued T-Max RS) it is similar.
The X-Tol datasheet offers times for 80F for many dilutions and films, but not all.
In some cases, a particular Kodak film and developer and dilution combination would most likely lead to a very short developer time, so probably isn't listed for that reason.
So I would conclude that it is dependent on many things.

 

[aparat]

So increased fogging with D-76 at 78F..........I'm curious if it was it am alarming amount of additional fogging, to the point of problematic?

Not problematic. I found a data file with 400TX in D76 1+1 at 78F (rotary) and for the eight-minute curve, B+F density is 0.34, compared to around 0.25 at 20C. I would not worry about it, either for printing or scanning.

It's a very good question, certainly worth of further experimentation. Wouldn't it be cool to never worry about temperature and always develop at ambient whatever (with relevant time adjustments)? Probably not realistic, unless one lives in a temperate climate zone. People who live in Texas and Florida can't even get tap water below 80-90F.

I remember reading about "tropical" developers in the Darkroom Cookbook. That might be worth trying.

 

[removedacct3]

.......who does it?

I do!

Even in the Netherlands, 20 deg Celsius requires some developer cooling during the summer time. Using a Jobo temper bath, warming up developer, water baths and fixer to the same consistent temperature is way more easier than cooling down using ice cubes and what not. I also do two pre-soaks to minimize a temperature drop when pouring in the developer.

I've tackled the shorter development times by using more dilute developers with unconventional dilutions using measuring spoons instead of small graduated cylinders.

Using my favorite developers, FX-55 (gainer variant), Hübl's Paste and Hypercat, I get the results I am after.

Have said all of this, coming summer I would like to try Ilford Pan F+ at box speed in Rodinal 1:40. I've heard nothing but good things about that combo and I am eager to see it with my own eyes. No way in the world I would develop that at 25 deg Celsius!

 

[npl]

I also develop at room temperature, using the Ilford temperature compensation chart (https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Temperature-compensation-chart.pdf). Works well. I can't say if grain is bigger with higher temp or not, but in my case that wouldn't matter much : I'm using medium speed film, Xtol, and I don't print very big, so chances are any differences would not be visible by the naked eye.

But if it's above 25°c/26°c, I cool down the solution simply by putting it in the fridge for a moment..

 

[Ian Grant]

Over the years I've read or have been told that 68 is the optimal temp, when using a higher temperature grain is more course and developments time can be so short as tp cause issues with uneven development. I often use 70 or 72 in the summer as my tap here in the low desert is often 90+ degrees. Modern film, Tmax 100 and 400 are so fine grained I don't think using a higher temperature will be an issue. Perhaps if you are using an older film like double X movie film or Foma you might notice a difference. As long as I keep development times over say 5 to 6 minutes I have not noticed any issues with uneven development. Saying that I have used DK50 stock with a development time of 3 minutes it came out fine.

The coarser grain at higher temperatures was proven to be a myth years ago, however that's provided there is good temperature control at all stages +/- 1ºC throughout the process cycle. Shifts in temperature could cause incipient/micro reticulation, Kodak call it surface artefacts, of the gelatin super coating of films and papers, this was more of an issue with older emulsions, most are now far better hardened.

When living in Turkey I processed at 26º-27ºC. Spring, Summer, & Autumn, that was the tap water temperature, it would have been extremely difficult to work at 20ºC. The Fomapan 100 & 200, Tmax 100, Delta 100 & HP5 films processed at 27ºC are no different in terms of graininess than those processed at 20º here in the UK, or in the Winter in Turkey.

Ian

 

[Chuck_P]

Thanks all for the input, you've given me a couple of things to look out for. I think the thing to do now is expose a couple of negatives today and give it a try.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

... The only real problems/complaints that I have is the lack of lots of developing data for film processing at temperatures > 68 degrees F on the various Internet sites. I do use some mathematics for performing temperature adjustments but for some developers this is more feasible than others.

Here you have it:

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Temperature-compensation-chart.pdf

Best,

Doremus

 

[Doremus Scudder]

I always develop film at the ambient indoor temperature. The necessary adjustments are simple and well known. Within a reasonably wide range - 18C - 24C - the results are indistinguishable, as long as developing times are sufficiently long to not be a problem - 5 minutes being my lower limit.
I'm sure that my approach is influenced by the fact that I live in one of the most temperate areas of the world.

This!

If your tap water is really too hot to safely wash film with, then the using jugs of tempered water and the fill-and-dump method of washing is advised.

All you who live in the south and have really warm tap water probably are processing indoors where it is air conditioned. A viable approach is to pre-mix all the chemicals you need and fill a few jugs with water. Let them sit around for a day or so and they will be at "room temperature." Whatever that is for you, it will likely be within Ilford's acceptable range of 18°C-27°C (64°F-80°F). Then just find the appropriate developing time from the Ilford chart (see above) and Robert is your mother's brother

Doremus

 

[ic-racer]

.......who does it?

I have always developed film at 68 degrees F.......then developing in the summer time has always been a pain trying to get my water bath down to 68 degrees with ice cubes......I've always found that to be tedious and a turn-off. I'm thinking strongly of going ahead, now, and standardizing on a development temperature of 75 degrees F. I am wondering how many do it and is there any problems with it that I may need to know about. Thanks.

Many film processors use heat baths higher than 20C for that reason. I started using T-max developer at 24C when I got my first Jobo in the 1990s.

 

[Chuck_P]

Here is a negative scan after developing the negative for 5 minutes at 75 deg F. It's a poor negative, imo, I don't like it, due to a poor choice of lens filter leading to too much contrast. That aside, the negative seems well developed to me. The grain does not appear any different from my negatives developed for 7.5 min at 68F in Xtol stock . The fb+f of the rebate is the same (0.05) at both development temperatures. I see no reason not to carry-on with it.

 

[Brian B Bednarek]

.......who does it?

I have always developed film at 68 degrees F.......then developing in the summer time has always been a pain trying to get my water bath down to 68 degrees with ice cubes......I've always found that to be tedious and a turn-off. I'm thinking strongly of going ahead, now, and standardizing on a development temperature of 75 degrees F. I am wondering how many do it and is there any problems with it that I may need to know about. Thanks.

I tend to adjust my time based on the room temperature ... never seem to have an issue!!!

 

[Sirius Glass]

I tend to adjust my time based on the room temperature ... never seem to have an issue!!!

Ditto. My only concerns are when the film development time drops below five minutes, then I start earlier the next day or turn on the air conditioner.