I'll miss 320 TXP in 220
Some Kodak B&W Film Deletions
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bummer
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Sebastiao Salgado made some of the best images ever using his Pentax 645 and TXP 320/220 the first four years of his Genesis project. As a matter of a fact he is the main reason I purchased a Pentax 645 so that I can try this combo. He has since switched over to a digital. Maybe he has come to embrace something that we can't or refuse to accept.
Jamusu.
Jamusu.
Riight. Like selling out.
Yup me too...
Once again I quote directly from the Kodak website re: Tri-X 320 / Tri-X 400
"The world's best selling black-and-white film"
Go figure :confused:
I don't think its fair to criticise Kodak for having to make tough economic decisions even if it is our all time favourite film stock - but I do think they could handle the process in a more professional manner
I wish all photographic companies would behave a little more maturely when they choose to discontinue products.
They should give their customers (that’s us) plenty of time to decide how to proceed before discontinuing a product
If we were given 12months notice about the end of a product we then could choose to make a single huge purchase of film emulsion in our preferred sizes
A sensible period of notification also gives us time to budget for the cost of such a large purchase of film stock and make suitable arrangements of where we are going to keep all this stuff (a new freezer?)
In the Industry I work in, when a supplier intends to end production of a small sub component, we are given about 18 months notice of their intent and it allows us to make suitable contingency plans, find alternatives and negotiate "one time buys" of the affected product.
In the Photographic Industry, the practice seems to be complete denial of any change until the shelves in the stock room are almost emptied and only then will a end of product message be begrudgingly issued.
Downsizing is a painful and difficult thing to manage but such strategic planning is what senior management is supposedly all about.
Clearly, the customer model and product planning of Kodak Films needs more than a little improvement
Martin
I wish all photographic companies would behave a little more maturely when they choose to discontinue products.
They should give their customers (that’s us) plenty of time to decide how to proceed before discontinuing a product
If we were given 12months notice about the end of a product we then could choose to make a single huge purchase of film emulsion in our preferred sizes
A sensible period of notification also gives us time to budget for the cost of such a large purchase of film stock and make suitable arrangements of where we are going to keep all this stuff (a new freezer?)
In the Industry I work in, when a supplier intends to end production of a small sub component, we are given about 18 months notice of their intent and it allows us to make suitable contingency plans, find alternatives and negotiate "one time buys" of the affected product.
In the Photographic Industry, the practice seems to be complete denial of any change until the shelves in the stock room are almost emptied and only then will a end of product message be begrudgingly issued.
Downsizing is a painful and difficult thing to manage but such strategic planning is what senior management is supposedly all about.
Clearly, the customer model and product planning of Kodak Films needs more than a little improvement
Martin
My guess for the very last Kodak B&W products:
Tri-x in 35mm, 24 exp. HC-110, in tiny 10ml squeeze tubes.
Tri-x in 35mm, 24 exp. HC-110, in tiny 10ml squeeze tubes.
Well, if we use Kodak's great products, hopefully we can stop this from happening.
These decisions were made quite a while ago, people said the same about Kodachrome.
Ian
When Kodak discontinues the only 220 black and white film in the world, I don't feel inspired to go out and buy "Kodak's great products." I will switch to Fuji and Ilford, where possible. It's only a matter of time until Kodak drops their other film products, although they will deny it to the enduntil they actually make the official announcements. Kodak is crazy if they think that customers of their discontinued products are going to run right out and buy more Kodak products.
So how many types of 220 film does Ilford make?
So how many types of 220 film does Fuji make?
Neither do.
So following your logic you should have boycotted both Ilford and Fuji before you boycott Kodak.
Therefore now you have to boycott Kodak and Fuji and Ilford. How is your logic working for you now??
Your logic has forced you to delete all the major film manufacturers! Now you have to give up film to maintain your logic system. How is that working for you now?
Great logic and critical thinking you have going for you.
Oh! Oh! I know! You are going to start making Kodachrome in your father's barn!
Steve
yep
Your right. I just started using the regular tri-x in pyrocat hd. Lovely combo. And i've been playing with plus-x as well.
Now though i'm going to pick up the last of the trix320 i can next payday and be done with kodak all together.
Freestyle's d76 clone is good enough to get me by till i have time to find another general purpose developer to settle on.
Your right. I just started using the regular tri-x in pyrocat hd. Lovely combo. And i've been playing with plus-x as well.
Now though i'm going to pick up the last of the trix320 i can next payday and be done with kodak all together.
Freestyle's d76 clone is good enough to get me by till i have time to find another general purpose developer to settle on.
Fuji and Ilford would have at least given us the courtesy of a reach around more than a month out.
It's not about logic and critical thinkingit's about spending my own money wherever I want, and Kodak's incessant product deletions do not inspire me to purchase other Kodak products, which they will also drop, sooner or later.
By the way, I DID stop using Ilford products when they dropped 220, but now that no company is making a 220 black and white film, I have to decide which companies I like on another basis, and I've had it with Kodak's history of product deletions.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kodak has already decided to drop all of their remaining slide films and is waiting for an opportune time to make it official.
And how much longer is Kodak going to make TXP in sheet film only? Probably they have already decided to drop it, but will deny it until stocks are nearly depleted.
Kodak has shown themselves to be utterly incapable of dealing with small-scale production of niche products. On that basis their future in film photography is bleak.
I've got a feeling Harman might rapidly re-assess the viability of HP5 in 220
That would be SO VERY good!
A feeling is better than nothing, but it doesn't mean anything definite will materialize...that part takes effort. Can Ilford even make 220 film? I remember reading earlier in this thread that they don't have the machines to do it. Is that true?
Bottom line:
Kodak: If at all possible, please make Tri-X 400 in 220.
While it's not the same film, it would solve the "no 220 in Black and white" issue. Yes, I would actually use it.
Anyone else?
Mr. Mowrey or Mr. Shriver: I wonder if this would be technically possible for them, and/or profitable. Or did they get out of 220 b&w because there is little demand for any type of b&w in 220 and not just TXP-320?
Bottom line:
Kodak: If at all possible, please make Tri-X 400 in 220.
While it's not the same film, it would solve the "no 220 in Black and white" issue. Yes, I would actually use it.
Anyone else?
Mr. Mowrey or Mr. Shriver: I wonder if this would be technically possible for them, and/or profitable. Or did they get out of 220 b&w because there is little demand for any type of b&w in 220 and not just TXP-320?
I've not compared FP4 to TXP, but with replenished Xtol use it alongside HP5 for all of my portrait work. It's a fantastic film.
You guys just aren't buying enough 220 to make it work for "any" film company. Even third tier EFKE and Foma don't make 220 for the small niche market. 220 must be a really small market.
Mike
Mike
I refuse to believe that the photographers of the world can't support one 220 black and white film. I blame Kodak's inability to cope with niche markets and the need for small-scale production.
Truer words were never spoke. Even 25 years ago, who shot 220 TXP ????
TXP is a nice film, but you can easily mimic it with TMY;
TXP in d-76 = .65 CI TMY2 in Xtol... at EI 800, with much high MTF, and finer grain.
It is also in 35mm, and ULF. So, what's the loss ?
Whining over TXP, 25 years after a better product was brought to you on a silver platter, is like slashing your wrists when Portrait Pan was taken off the market, leaving only Plus X, Tri X, and TXP.
Well, to each his own.
This bears repeating.
You guys just aren't buying enough 220 to make it work for "any" film company. Even third tier EFKE and Foma don't make 220 for the small niche market. 220 must be a really small market.
You guys just aren't buying enough 220 to make it work for "any" film company. Even third tier EFKE and Foma don't make 220 for the small niche market. 220 must be a really small market.
You guys just aren't buying enough 220 to make it work for "any" film company. Even third tier EFKE and Foma don't make 220 for the small niche market. 220 must be a really small market.
You guys just aren't buying enough 220 to make it work for "any" film company. Even third tier EFKE and Foma don't make 220 for the small niche market. 220 must be a really small market.
When I inherited a C330 a few years ago, one of the first things I did was do a search for 220 film because I could rotate the pressure plate and use 220 right away. I was really disappointed to find a great plethora of a lack of 220 film choices. I soon traded the C330 in for a Hasselblad and wanted to buy the A24, a 220 film back. The sales person asked me if I really wanted to do that. He pointed out the 220 never really got popular and with declining film sales, the number of choices was and would be continually declining. He said, getting processed could be problematical because it was not all that financially viable for labs to maintain the necessary equipment for 220 processing. I regularly check the availability of 220 films and I never cease to be increasingly disappointed. I can want it all I want, but since the market is not viable, the availability of 220 film choices is not going to recover.
For me the market was never there for me to buy the 220 films I wanted.
Steve
True... but really how much can you buy at once.
I usually buy 2-3 Pro-packs at a time, sometimes 5 (and I'll store the rest in the freezer), about 3-4x a year. OK, perhaps not a huge purchase over time, but again how much can you really buy at once.
The reason why I'm concerned about 220 is simply this... when I shoot with my Hassy EL/M or ELX (motor driven bodies), with 120 film and a 6x6 back you could wind up changing backs as many times as 4x in minute as the camera shoots about a frame a second. With a 645 back and 120 you get 16 shots so maybe 3x a minute if your shooting in "A" mode.
With 220 you get 24 shots or if your lucky and have a A32 you get 32 shots....ok enough of Photography 101... changing backs so many times with 120 film, really takes the fun and Spontaneity out of the shoot.... can you just see the subject/model rolling her eyes as you say... "Excuse me as I change film magazines :rolleyes:"
Look, 70mm film is loooong gone, now 220, come on we need something!
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