So much for mechanical cameras

[Alan Edward Klein]

Interesting discussion. So I had a couple of pretty terrible repair experiences over the past year. The main one was a repair odyssey involving my beloved, and still broken to this day, Minolta Autocord (I will write a separate post about this - but thank you very much for nothing at all, Sandro Presta).

Anyhow - I'm at the point I can't be arsed anymore. I just want to take pictures and not wait 8 months without my camera and then regularly spend its value worth in repairs every couple of years or so.

So I'm more and more leaning towards my trustworthy, plasticky, unloved by many, electronic 90s cameras. I have a few that just keep ticking and ticking like a Casio watch. Are they pretty? Kind of, who cares? Do they do what's on the tin? IME yea, unfailingly so.

So off I go with my N90s, F301, Fuji GA645i. Some ugly ducklings I spent respectively $50 $30 and $400 to purchase, and which are giving me results I will treasure for years. And they keep working, and working and working.

'But, Batteries"! - I can buy them cheap off amazon, and they'll last for years
Electronics will fail! - I will dump the whole camera and buy another one. In fact I have a few backup bodies aligned.
But they look like modern digital cameras so nobody will know you're shooting film - happy with that
But the beauty of the manual controls is lost! - love manual controls and TLR ergonomics, so I suppose I will have to live with this compromise.

Long live unrepairable 90s Japanese electronics

My Nikon N6006 electronic 35mm from 35 years ago works like a champ. I checked the electronic shutter and all settings are accurate. Pretty amazing. All the features work flawlessly including the metering, PASM, bracketing, auto-focus, auto rewind, etc. I hadn't used it in years than recently I loaded some Tmax 400 and got great results.

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[Philippe-Georges]

About 15 years ago, when analogue photography was nearly dead and every body got rid of their 'old stuff' and jumped on the digital train, I bought a second used Hasselblad 500C/M, a Planar 80mm and a Distagon 60mm for less than twice as nothing, and an A12 for free.
Then I got these CLA'd and keep them now as a spare set, and have it 'working' once a month to keep it in good shape.
My more extensive and initial set is used regularly...
Anyway, when eventually all spare parts are gone, I can take the most worn for cannibalizing (which would be sad but inevitable)...

BTW, this is what a friend, living in France, does: he has 6 Citroën traction avant but only one is in full working order, 4 are donors and one is waiting for a spare part to be found...

 

[Helios 1984]

Try to find someone to repair a 1990's electronic camera. Its all the same.

I tried to repair a Pentax SF-X, a few years back, and I didn’t like the experience. The amount of wires in these things is maddening, you have to de-solder & re-solder a plethora each time you want to test something. After doing it 8-10 times, I threw the camera in the bin after scavenging the screws and bits.

 

[Kino]

About 15 years ago, when analogue photography was nearly dead and every body got rid of their 'old stuff' and jumped on the digital train, I bought a second used Hasselblad 500C/M, a Planar 80mm and a Distagon 60mm for less than twice as nothing, and an A12 for free.
Then I got these CLA'd and keep them now as a spare set, and have it 'working' once a month to keep it in good shape.
My more extensive and initial set is used regularly...
Anyway, when eventually all spare parts are gone, I can take the most worn for cannibalizing (which would be sad but inevitable)...

BTW, this is what a friend, living in France, does: he has 6 Citroën traction avant but only one is in full working order, 4 are donors and one is waiting for a spare part to be found...

It's like the motion picture lab situation. A decade ago, we thought the film stock would be gone first, but it turns out all the support equipment and printing manufacturers died-out first.

At the lab I work at, not a single piece of major (and practically all minor) equipment has an existing and functional manufacturer. Not one.

Spares must be scavenged or manufactured IF you can find the specifications or derive them from the broken part.

I retire in April of next year; just hope enough gear holds out to make it there!

 

[warden]

The move to electronics in many industries was not just to push more extensive functionality (although that certainly was a large part of it). Reliability had a lot to do with it. The same with cars, but many people still have lots of trouble wrapping their heads around that one.

Cars and cameras are so different that it's hard to compare much about them. Modern cars, even the "good ones" are frustrating because they are in fact more reliable than years past, but are also disposable and shockingly easy to be "mechanically totaled" with a few traditionally minor problems. I'd gladly own and maintain a Mercedes or BMW from the 70s or 80s rather than any of the current products from either brand.

Wait, maybe cars and cameras can be compared after all?

 

[Don_ih]

Wait, maybe cars and cameras can be compared after all?

They do both begin with "ca". And they contain an "r".

 

[Pioneer]

Interesting discussion. So I had a couple of pretty terrible repair experiences over the past year. The main one was a repair odyssey involving my beloved, and still broken to this day, Minolta Autocord (I will write a separate post about this - but thank you very much for nothing at all, Sandro Presta).

Anyhow - I'm at the point I can't be arsed anymore. I just want to take pictures and not wait 8 months without my camera and then regularly spend its value worth in repairs every couple of years or so.

So I'm more and more leaning towards my trustworthy, plasticky, unloved by many, electronic 90s cameras. I have a few that just keep ticking and ticking like a Casio watch. Are they pretty? Kind of, who cares? Do they do what's on the tin? IME yea, unfailingly so.

So off I go with my N90s, F301, Fuji GA645i. Some ugly ducklings I spent respectively $50 $30 and $400 to purchase, and which are giving me results I will treasure for years. And they keep working, and working and working.

'But, Batteries"! - I can buy them cheap off amazon, and they'll last for years
Electronics will fail! - I will dump the whole camera and buy another one. In fact I have a few backup bodies aligned.
But they look like modern digital cameras so nobody will know you're shooting film - happy with that
But the beauty of the manual controls is lost! - love manual controls and TLR ergonomics, so I suppose I will have to live with this compromise.

Long live unrepairable 90s Japanese electronics

Amen brother. The pictures that have come from the output of my Minolta 9xi look pretty good. And that big chunk of plastic that is my Pentax 645nii still pumps out very printable negatives.

 

[MattKing]

Wait, maybe cars and cameras can be compared after all?

They do both begin with "ca". And they contain an "r".

And for some people, they fill a garage!

 

[glbeas]

Cameras and other mechanical beasts undergo natural selection as the years go by. The poorly designed or less robust falls by the wayside leaving the good one to last the years. Eventually the majority of whats left are the ones built to last or are easiest to repair.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

Wait, maybe cars and cameras can be compared after all?

This thread, seemingly being as much about cars as it is about cameras, reminds me of the old Russian joke:


— How do you find spare parts for a Lada?

— Follow another Lada.

 

[retina_restoration]

Cameras and other mechanical beasts undergo natural selection as the years go by. The poorly designed or less robust falls by the wayside leaving the good one to last the years. Eventually the majority of whats left are the ones built to last or are easiest to repair.

This is an important point.

My own experience with many of the pre-WW2 Retina cameras built in Stuttgart is this: even the oldest of them, dating to 1934, are well built and unless they've been abused. They can still be restored to 100% functional with a proper servicing, rarely requiring replacement parts. The Compur shutters of that era are as good as any shutter ever made, and after a cleaning, they run as well as when new and do not need calibration of the speed train.

This photo was made with a 1935 Retina type 118 with the standard Schneider Xenar lens, with the lens wide open at f3.5

 

[JPD]

My electronic Olympus OM20 is a brick, but the mechanical OM-1 I got from my father still works. I have plenty of Kodak Retinas in 35mm and many Rollei TLRs that work, so I don't have to have any mechanical cameras repaired in my lifetime.

The usual repair when it comes to the electronics is to replace a whole circuit board, and if they don't have any spares they say the camera can't be repaired. With some knowledge I'm sure it's possible to troubleshoot and replace components yourself.

 

[BrianShaw]

This is an important point.

My own experience with many of the pre-WW2 Retina cameras built in Stuttgart is this: even the oldest of them, dating to 1934, are well built and unless they've been abused. They can still be restored to 100% functional with a proper servicing, rarely requiring replacement parts. The Compur shutters of that era are as good as any shutter ever made, and after a cleaning, they run as well as when new and do not need calibration of the speed train.

This photo was made with a 1935 Retina type 118 with the standard Schneider Xenar lens, with the lens wide open at f3.5

Yep... a testament to the quality that came out of the Kodak AG/Nagel Kamera Werk! I regularly use three: a Duo Six-20 from mid-1930's, Retina IIIc from 1950's and a Retina IIIC from 1960's. All fantastic cameras for both photographic capability, build quality, and reliability.

 

[Pioneer]

Cameras and other mechanical beasts undergo natural selection as the years go by. The poorly designed or less robust falls by the wayside leaving the good one to last the years. Eventually the majority of whats left are the ones built to last or are easiest to repair.

Or the ones that were used gently...

 

[Besk]

I have miniature 6x9 Crown Graphic with rangefinder with a few lenses & backs and have adapted one back to use 35 mm film. If all my other cameras break I have a back up.
So now I use a Nikon N75, F2’s and others without worrying if they fail and can’t be repaired. Don’t think the Nikon F2’s will ever be non-repairable because of the lack of spare parts.

 

[Europan]

Funny, I am investigating a number of 8-mm. projectors across the board in search of the one that is most light efficient. I have a list of every make I could find information about, am actually collecting data such as light-dark ratio, claw position relative to optical axis, diameter of lens holder, speeds, and more.

I am familiar with many European models of which I can recommend a few. The Bauer T 10 for instance is very quiet and compact, can be kept clean. The Paillard-Bolex M 8 has beautiful mechanics but does not run in reverse. The Paillard-Bolex 18-5 outputs too little light. The old French EMEL P 73 is rugged and has a perfect gate. There are many more interesting designs, from Italy and other countries.

Among the American projectors the Bell & Howell Filmo 8 is compact, lightweight, reliable, and effective. An Ampro 8 I have bought recently has a tight motor bearing, the motor must have smoked judged from what the motor stator smells and looks. Else, if you can get hold of a healthy one, a marvel. Also very good designs: De Jur, Revere, Keystone. What concerns Eastman-Kodak I have to say that the old Kodascope Eights are kind to the film at the price of not being light giants. The family of Showtime, Analyst, HI-MAT, and Sound 8 from 1956 on are quick shifters, relatively harsh on film with narrow-toothed claws in exchange of more than double the amount of light compared to the Kodascopes and Brownies. Polyester positives are tougher than triacetate films, therefore no problems with such in a Showtime 8.

 

[r_a_feldman]

...it is actually very hard to find a repair service for old mechanical cameras. And if you should be lucky enough to find one, hope not to need spare parts, because there are none. ...

Any "electronic" camera that uses custom chips (such as custom integrated circuits or PROMS) suffers from the same problem: there is often no source of those custom chips other than a donor camera. Some electronic parts also naturally degrade (e.g., capacitors) over time.

 

[Sirius Glass]

About 15 years ago, when analogue photography was nearly dead and every body got rid of their 'old stuff' and jumped on the digital train, I bought a second used Hasselblad 500C/M, a Planar 80mm and a Distagon 60mm for less than twice as nothing, and an A12 for free.
Then I got these CLA'd and keep them now as a spare set, and have it 'working' once a month to keep it in good shape.
My more extensive and initial set is used regularly...
Anyway, when eventually all spare parts are gone, I can take the most worn for cannibalizing (which would be sad but inevitable)...

BTW, this is what a friend, living in France, does: he has 6 Citroën traction avant but only one is in full working order, 4 are donors and one is waiting for a spare part to be found...

About the same time I traded in my inherited Mamiya C330f with three lenses for a Hasselblad 503 CX and a 250mm lens. I then proceeded to buy us more Hasselblad lenses. That is when I changed my name to Sirius Glass.

 

[4season]

Good for you! More and more people are doing this. And learning to do it right, not just a little lighter fluid and WD-40.

I was learning on ES-II and find they can be had for twenty bucks. They always have the same problems. And I have a few spares for parts if ever needed.

I got one cleaned up and working 100% and stopped doing work on the rest because I was happy with the good one. Should have kept working on them because the good one is already starting to falter. I wish I could just grab the next one and keep shooting. I wish they had over-engineered the mirror return catch because it takes a fair second curtain velocity to make the mirror return. You have to hit pretty hard.

Thanks, it's always an adventure learning my way around a different make or model of camera!

I wouldn't say that refurbishing Pentax MZ/ZX/P3/P30-series cameras has been particularly lucrative for me, but there's a certain sense of accomplishment in turning junk into something useful again. I sold this trio the other year, haven't decided whether to continue fussing with Pentax or Minolta SLR repairs, but sometimes find myself lingering over Minolta XD-S, Asahiflex and Pentax SL auctions.

 

[Don_ih]

That is when I changed my name to Sirius Glass.

And a legend was born?

 

[4season]

About the same time I traded in my inherited Mamiya C330f with three lenses for a Hasselblad 503 CX and a 250mm lens. I then proceeded to buy us more Hasselblad lenses. That is when I changed my name to Sirius Glass.

And if I were still active in Leica rangefinder cameras, my handle could have been "Hektorex"

 

[Don_ih]

If I were a train, I'd be late ....

 

[4season]

Any "electronic" camera that uses custom chips (such as custom integrated circuits or PROMS) suffers from the same problem: there is often no source of those custom chips other than a donor camera. Some electronic parts also naturally degrade (e.g., capacitors) over time.

To date (knock on wood!) I have dealt with just two actual silicon failures: Olympus XA ASIC blown due to my mis-wiring it, and power MOSFETs in a Noblex panoramic camera, perhaps blown due to inductive surge from the motor. The latter was a pretty straightforward fix as the circuitry was pretty much same as any number of kid's robotics sets.

 

[4season]

If I were a train, I'd be late ....

As in "The Late Don_ih"?

 

[Don_ih]

As in "The Late Don_ih"?

In that event, the late train would never depart - it would already be gone.

In other news, the only electronic failure that happened to a camera I was using was when the flash in my Pentax PC35AF went POP. I do have a nice pile of cameras with some kind of electrical problem or other - but they were like that when I got them. I think a lot of cameras fail due to battery leakage.