Single grade FB papers

Melvin J Bramley · Feb 23, 2023

I'm interested in opinions of single grade fibre based papers?
These papers served past masters of photography very well and we have the results to show it yet they have fallen from favour.
When we start talking of multi contrast papers and split grade printing , are we just saying that we have lost control of the negative?

I am returning to 'serious ' photography after many years of knock some quick prints off !! for the local high school.
Prior to that with some rudimentary darkroom equipment I was reliably turning out displayable prints on Ilfords Ilfobrom and the wonderful Ilford Gallerie with box of grade 2 paper and a box of grade 3 for the one that got away!

Paul Howell · Feb 23, 2023

Not sure how many graded papers are left, I printed on grade 2 for decades, now it seems that grade 2, 3 and 4 are still available from Foma. I dont see much from Ilford, and most of what I see is RC.

Peter Schrager · Feb 23, 2023

You can still buy single grade paper from Foma via Freestyle Photographic.
For all the obvious reasons single grade fell out of favor as multigrade papers were vastly improved.
there were things you could do with single grade that you could never do with multi but as in life it all goes down to trade offs and the benefit of stocking one box versus 3 or 4 grades is fairly obvious.
It will also teach you to be a better photographer and learn control of your developing negatives.
The emulsions that were of old were able to change color and hues in many ways but that ability was not happening anymore with later iterations of paper.
On personal note I continue to make my own Printing Out Paper and love having my own control of what I'm printing.

mshchem · Feb 23, 2023

Foma Retrobrom

Craig · Feb 23, 2023

Melvin J Bramley said:
When we start talking of multi contrast papers and split grade printing , are we just saying that we have lost control of the negative?

The opposite actually we can do things that were not possible with single grade papers. Things such as dodging and burning different ares of the print with different contrasts.

Of course there is the convenience of only needing to keep one paper in the darkroom with a single speed, instead of 5 boxes that each were different speeds.

I have printed a negative on Multigrade paper but at a single grade. Then I split grade printed the same negative to similar tonal values and took them both to a meeting of camera friends. Everyone preferred the split graded print, because it had more local micro contrast, even thought the overall contrast was the same. Try it and see what results you get. I'd certainly never go back to single grade fibre paper.

oxcanary · Feb 24, 2023

Also a generational thing. I started printing when 23 which was 40 years ago. Never ever went near graded papers. Ironically, I now seek some of these papers for lith.

Bill Burk · Feb 24, 2023

Craig said:
I have printed a negative on Multigrade paper but at a single grade. Then I split grade printed the same negative to similar tonal values and took them both to a meeting of camera friends. Everyone preferred the split graded print, because it had more local micro contrast, even thought the overall contrast was the same. Try it and see what results you get. I'd certainly never go back to single grade fibre paper.

That’s a great story!

Bill Burk · Feb 24, 2023

Melvin J Bramley said:
I'm interested in opinions of single grade fibre based papers?

Ilford Gallerie with box of grade 2 paper and a box of grade 3 for the one that got away!

I was going to say it’s still available but I see the walls closing in.

You can buy 100 sheet box of 8x10 Galerie Grade 3 right now from B&H.

Go do it before it’s too late.

Craig · Feb 24, 2023

Bill Burk said:
That’s a great story!

I don't know if it was the negative that made the difference or not, as it was from about 1950. Perhaps the older films work better with split grade? It was a noticeable difference anyway.

snusmumriken · Feb 24, 2023

Melvin J Bramley said:
I'm interested in opinions of single grade fibre based papers?
These papers served past masters of photography very well and we have the results to show it yet they have fallen from favour.
When we start talking of multi contrast papers and split grade printing , are we just saying that we have lost control of the negative?

I am returning to 'serious ' photography after many years of knock some quick prints off !! for the local high school.
Prior to that with some rudimentary darkroom equipment I was reliably turning out displayable prints on Ilfords Ilfobrom and the wonderful Ilford Gallerie with box of grade 2 paper and a box of grade 3 for the one that got away!

If you can find the materials, you’ll certainly find it the challenge you are looking for. Whether it is more ‘serious’ I doubt. I’d say that serious photographers have seen the real advantages of current MG and embraced them.

I was recently in the process of reprinting some old negs. Comparing side by side, I am quite surprised how decent my old prints (on single grade Oriental Seagull) were, but my new prints with MG are nevertheless much better.

Bill Burk · Feb 24, 2023

No, it’s not a fluke. It’s true that advanced techniques like split grade and masking can make very good prints. They can look better side by side compared to prints made with single grade or using multigrade paper with a single filter by the same person.

But single grade paper has a look that I like so I use it. If I could not get more, I would use multigrade paper with a single whole grade number filter.

koraks · Feb 24, 2023

Melvin J Bramley said:
I'm interested in opinions of single grade fibre based papers?

Not so much an opinion, but more of a theoretical approach to understanding the limitations of multigrade papers: http://www.darkroomautomation.com/support/appnotevcworkings.pdf
Make of that what you will. It doesn't stop me from using multigrade papers...

Sal Santamaura · Feb 24, 2023

Bill Burk said:
...You can buy 100 sheet box of 8x10 Galerie Grade 3 right now from B&H.

Go do it before it’s too late.

If for no other reason than to experience the last fiber base paper from HARMAN that still had a decent surface. All current glossy Ilford fiber base papers, air dried, have obnoxiously reflective surfaces. Apparently the market is attracted to shiny objects. Try the Galerie, then lobby for its top coat to be used on Multigrade Classic.

Paul Howell · Feb 24, 2023

The ILford web store all grade 3 and 2 are out of stock. As still listed hopefully Harman has plans to coat another run.

Roger Cole · Feb 24, 2023

I think Slavich is still making Unibrom, but I don't know of a US distributor. Never used it, but recall reading good things about it some years ago.

Doremus Scudder · Feb 24, 2023

Craig said:
... I have printed a negative on Multigrade paper but at a single grade. Then I split grade printed the same negative to similar tonal values and took them both to a meeting of camera friends. Everyone preferred the split graded print, because it had more local micro contrast, even thought the overall contrast was the same. Try it and see what results you get. I'd certainly never go back to single grade fibre paper.

"Similar tonal values" is the key here; the prints weren't identical. VC paper doesn't care how it gets its doses of blue and green light; together or separately. You can easily make identical prints on VC paper with split-grade and conventional one-exposure at a corresponding intermediate filtration. People who believe split-grade printing somehow changes the contrast curve of the paper compared to exposing with filtration that allows the same proportions of blue and green to hit the paper all at once are simply buying into a myth.

Split-grade printing will give you the possibility to get intermediate contrast grades between standard VC filters (e.g., the Ilford Multigrade filter set), but has no advantage over a continuously variable light source like a color head with dichroic filtration. Where split-grade printing techniques shine is in dodging and burning.

Best,

Doremus

Paul Howell · Feb 24, 2023

Roger Cole said:
I think Slavich is still making Unibrom, but I don't know of a US distributor. Never used it, but recall reading good things about it some years ago.

I used when it was carried by B&H and I think Freestyle, I liked it, remined of Agfa of the 70 and early 80s. Being Russian doubt that you find it, don't know if Slavich will survive the sanctions.

Roger Cole · Feb 24, 2023

I found a Lithuanian distributor. Sizes were all odd by US standards but that's not a deal breaker (at least it wouldn't be for me) if someone wanted to try it. A bigger drawback might be that I think there was only one grade an no sizes larger than something slightly larger than 11x14 (smaller than 16x20.)

Roger Cole · Feb 24, 2023

Doremus Scudder said:
"Similar tonal values" is the key here; the prints weren't identical. VC paper doesn't care how it gets its doses of blue and green light; together or separately. You can easily make identical prints on VC paper with split-grade and conventional one-exposure at a corresponding intermediate filtration. People who believe split-grade printing somehow changes the contrast curve of the paper compared to exposing with filtration that allows the same proportions of blue and green to hit the paper all at once are simply buying into a myth.

Split-grade printing will give you the possibility to get intermediate contrast grades between standard VC filters (e.g., the Ilford Multigrade filter set), but has no advantage over a continuously variable light source like a color head with dichroic filtration. Where split-grade printing techniques shine is in dodging and burning.

Best,

Doremus

I'm glad to read someone with more experience posting this. That's something I've read, and found to be true for myself - all split grade printing ever did for me was make it more work to get the same result. But some people swear by it.

It's not even really much of an advantage for intermediate steps with filters, because it's easy enough to give, say, 50% of the exposure with a grade 2.5 filter and 50% with a 3 if you need about 2.75 etc. Easier with a continuously variable light source of course (which I have now but didn't last time I tried that.)

Sal Santamaura · Feb 24, 2023

Paul Howell said:
The ILford web store all grade 3 and 2 are out of stock. As still listed hopefully Harman has plans to coat another run.

You'll feel much better when you give up hope. There's just a little left at B&H. HARMAN made clear in 2021 it would not be coating any more:

Discontinued Ilford Papers

Sorry if this has been reported already but it looks like Ilfobrom Galerie Fibre and Ilfospeed RC Deluxe papers are being phased out. My recently received Ilford price list form my local Ilford distributor lists these papers as "While Stocks Last".

www.photrio.com

Alan9940 · Feb 24, 2023

Doesn't Foma still make a graded paper? Fomabrom?

David Brown · Feb 24, 2023

Doremus Scudder said:
"Similar tonal values" is the key here; the prints weren't identical. VC paper doesn't care how it gets its doses of blue and green light; together or separately. You can easily make identical prints on VC paper with split-grade and conventional one-exposure at a corresponding intermediate filtration. People who believe split-grade printing somehow changes the contrast curve of the paper compared to exposing with filtration that allows the same proportions of blue and green to hit the paper all at once are simply buying into a myth.

Split-grade printing will give you the possibility to get intermediate contrast grades between standard VC filters (e.g., the Ilford Multigrade filter set), but has no advantage over a continuously variable light source like a color head with dichroic filtration. Where split-grade printing techniques shine is in dodging and burning.

Best,

Doremus

Hear! Hear!

Roger Cole · Feb 24, 2023

Alan9940 said:
Doesn't Foma still make a graded paper? Fomabrom?

Yes.

George Collier · Feb 25, 2023

Back when I first started to split grade print, I compared them with prints I had made on Seagull graded, a very good paper from the 80's and 90's, grades 2,3, and 4. There was no comparison, and I realized that being able to print locally, as suggested above, eg shadows with grade 3 or 4, touch in highlight areas with grade 1 or 0, etc. Also, it may be that technical improvement, or advancement for graded papers was just abandoned ("walls closing in", I like that, Bill) because of the superior control with split, or even single grade filter printing with MG paper.

cliveh · Feb 25, 2023

Melvin J Bramley said:
When we start talking of multi contrast papers and split grade printing , are we just saying that we have lost control of the negative?

Amen. If you need to use split grade printing, you may as well use Photoshop.

Single grade FB papers

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency