Simple Bleach Sepia Formula Ques

[Bob Carnie]

I just finished making a 65inch long fibre print and now I want to tone the sucker.
I have these Monster hydroponic trays 44x72inch for the purpose but they are not flat bottomed and I think I am going to need at least 30-50 litres to get a workable depth of chemistry to bleach and then tone.

Could someone provide me a scratch formula for Part A Bleach in Litre volume so that i can multiply by the amount of final working solution.
As well a scratch formula for Sepia toner to apply as a second bath ,once again in a litre volume to make a final working solution.

I need to do this from scratch as buying the Kodak kits that I usually do will become costly.
thanks
Bob

 

[Ian Grant]

Ilford IT-1
For Bromide and Multigrade Papers

STOCK FERRICYANIDE SOLUTION
Warm Water (125 F or 52 C) - 750.0 ml
Potassium Ferricyanide - 100.0 grams
Potassium Bromide - 100.0 grams
Add cold water to make - 1.0 liter

For use, dilute 1 part of the above stock solution with 9 parts of water.

STOCK SULFIDE SOLUTION
Sodium Sulfide - 50.0 grams
Cold water to make - 1.0 liter

For use, dilute 1 part of the above stock solution with 9 parts of water.
Prints which have been correctly exposed and fully developed produce the best tones.
After the print has been fixed and thoroughly washed, immerse in the diluted
ferricyanide solution until it is completely bleached. Then wash for about 10 minutes and place in the sulfide solution, where it will redevelop to a rich sepia color.

Warmer can be produced by reducing the potassium bromide in the above formula to 1/4of the amount given. Wash the print thoroughly after toning.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Thanks Ian
exactly what I am looking for.
Bob

 

[Dave Miller]

If you intend bleaching to finality prior to toning, then it is possible to use a deep narrow tank that holds a couple of litres and yo-yo a loop of the print back and forth through the liquid; much like roll film is sometimes developed around a trident in a jar. It is not necessary to immerse the whole print at the same time. It could also be treated by laying the print flat on a board in your sink and brushing the fluid on, and using a hose to wash off the print.

 

[pnance]

The standard sepia formula is a 10% solution of potassium ferricyanide, with 5-10% of potassium bromide added. The print is then washed to remove the stain. Then redeveloped in a solution of 5-15 ml of a 10% sodium hydroxide solution per liter. The print should be refixed if not developed to completion. (If you’re doing split toning use a 1% solution of potassium ferricyanide, with a 0.5-1% of potassium bromide. This will allow the image to bleach slow enough to stop before complete bleaching, leaves darkest tones to mix with the sepia tones.) This should be easy to adapt to any size needed. I'd test the effect on small prints first.

 

[Ian Grant]

Alternative Toner

Part A
Sodium Hydroxide - 100grams
Water to - 1 litre

Part B
Thiourea - 50 grams
Water to - 1 Litre

To Use,

--------Purple-------Brown-------Yellow Brown
Part A 100-----80-----60-----40-----20
Part B 20-----40-----60-----80-----100
Water 1000---1000---1000--1000---1000

Much more pleasant, as odour less and more variable control.

Gives superb colours and can safely be used in the darkroom. The actual colour depends also on the paper used.

Don't use a Sodium Sulphide toner in a darkroom, preferably use outdoors as the smell of rotten eggs is appalling, and the fumes can damage unexposed paper.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Hi Dave
I do a partial bleach which requires a complete immersion, as well I am planing to tone selenium on top of some of these suckers.
thanks
Bob

If you intend bleaching to finality prior to toning, then it is possible to use a deep narrow tank that holds a couple of litres and yo-yo a loop of the print back and forth through the liquid; much like roll film is sometimes developed around a trident in a jar. It is not necessary to immerse the whole print at the same time. It could also be treated by laying the print flat on a board in your sink and brushing the fluid on, and using a hose to wash off the print.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Ian
The tenents in my building for years think I have a very bad bodily problem, I lately have blamed it on Dinesh and last month on Les Mclean. One look at those two helped me in my blame.
I tend to sulfide tone late in day when most of the tenants are gone.
My Darkroom where I am toning is very large so the smell is not over powering to me. I would prefer to work with your first description as that is what I am use to.
Just ordered enough chem to sink a battle ship.
Dinesh could you please drop by later this week so that I can point to you and hold my nose. I need my Lab Rat for these prints.
I will try this second formula at a later date.

Alternative Toner

Part A
Sodium Hydroxide - 100grams
Water to - 1 litre

Part B
Thiourea - 50 grams
Water to - 1 Litre

To Use,

--------Purple-------Brown-------Yellow Brown
Part A 100-----80-----60-----40-----20
Part B 20-----40-----60-----80-----100
Water 1000---1000---1000--1000---1000

Much more pleasant, as odour less and more variable control.

Gives superb colours and can safely be used in the darkroom. The actual colour depends also on the paper used.

Don't use a Sodium Sulphide toner in a darkroom, preferably use outdoors as the smell of rotten eggs is appalling, and the fumes can damage unexposed paper.

 

[Dinesh]

Ian
......Dinesh could you please drop by later this week so that I can point to you and hold my nose. .

Bob I'd love to help you out, but I have to put in an appearance at my wife's women's group. I put on one of those mugger/sumo suits and the women all line up an kick me in the nether regions.

 

[Ian Grant]

Dinesh, I don't know which is the best choice . . . .

99 women kicking you where it hurts or the smell of Bob's sulphide.

Have you thought of moving

Ian

 

[Les McLean]

Dinesh, I don't know which is the best choice . . . .

99 women kicking you where it hurts or the smell of Bob's sulphide.

Have you thought of moving

Ian

Ian , it's neither of those two choices, it's the one piece orange boiler suit that's more like a straight jacket that Bob requires all his darkroom rats to wear when responding to his every demand?

 

[Ian Grant]

sulPHide

Bob you can't spell, remember you speak proper English so dont be lazy !!!!!! Sulphide . . . . only grossly over weight americans need to drop letters to make words less effort to speak & spell, ie sulfide.

More seriously the tones & colours of Thiourea are something you must try.

Ian
I tend to sulfide tone late in day when most of the tenants are gone.
My Darkroom where I am toning is very large so the smell is not over powering to me. I would prefer to work with your first description as that is what I am use to.

I will try this second formula at a later date.

 

[Dave Miller]

Dinesh, I don't know which is the best choice . . . .

99 women kicking you where it hurts or the smell of Bob's sulphide.

Have you thought of moving

Ian

I recommend he go with the women.

 

[tim rudman]

With that volume of toner and more importantly, that surface area, why do you want to use the (old fashioned!) sulphide toners instead of odourless thiocarbamide Bob - where you can vary the colour as a bonus.
Lots of simple formulae in the book ;-) Much more pleasant to use too.
Tim

 

[Ian Grant]

So where's the photos

More seriously are you going to be on hand to administer relief for poor Dinesh.

Ian , it's neither of those two choices, it's the one piece orange boiler suit that's more like a straight jacket that Bob requires all his darkroom rats to wear when responding to his every demand?

 

[Bob Carnie]

I just realized that I insulted the grand phooba counsler, and his cohort Dinesh in one post. Please, please do not report me to that other thread.

I will post pictures of the large toned print in hand in a couple of days with the Orange Jump Suit included.

seriously thanks all for your help and I will go to the odourless in the near future as advised.

 

[tim rudman]

snip snip
seriously thanks all for your help and I will go to the odourless in the near future as advised.

Very wise. It doesn't make the beer taste funny either (Health & safety addendum: unless you mix it of course)
;-)
Tim

 

[Dave Miller]

I just realized that I insulted the grand phooba counsler, and his cohort Dinesh in one post. Please, please do not report me to that other thread.

Too late, far too late. Les has already started a 42 thread report.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Dave
I know I can make Dinesh forget everything with one silly beer so he's no problem, and I will threaten not to let Les see the wedding images he took of Laura and I in July, so he is covered as well.
best regards
Bob

 

[Craig]

Could you use something like a wallpaper tray to reduce the amount of chemistry needed?

 

[Ian Grant]

That's what most of us do anyway for large prints.

Ian

Could you use something like a wallpaper tray to reduce the amount of chemistry needed?

 

[DaveOttawa]

Hydrogen sulphide is poisonous...

Bob, I don't want to be a worrywart but think carefully about the risk of poisoning with the amount of hydrogen sulphide you will generate with large volumes of the toner bath, it is toxic and numbs the sense of smell at higher (i.e. more dangerous) concentrations, suggest you review the MSDS if you haven't already!

 

[Bob Carnie]

I do have a face mask with filters , I am going with Ians first suggestion of sodium sulphide rather than hydrogen sulphide. Are they the same thing?
thanks for the heads up. I think I will have about fifty litres of working solution as per Ians first post for the toner.

Bob, I don't want to be a worrywart but think carefully about the risk of poisoning with the amount of hydrogen sulphide you will generate with large volumes of the toner bath, it is toxic and numbs the sense of smell at higher (i.e. more dangerous) concentrations, suggest you review the MSDS if you haven't already!

 

[Dinesh]

I do have a face mask .

And let me tell you, we wish you wore it more often.

 

[DaveOttawa]

50 litres!!

Sodium sulphide is a solid, it is a component of the powder to make the toning solution for the Kodak bleach and redvelop type sepia toner.
Sodium sulphide is not hydrogen sulphide, hydrogen sulphide (H2S) is a gas (rotten egg smell) and is evolved from the sodium sulphide in the toning solution.
The issue here is that you plan to use a much larger volume of toning solution (50 litres!): there will there be a much larger volume of H2S evloved and it may exceed the capacity of your ventilation arrangements and reach a dangerous level. I normally use 1 quart from a standard Kodak kit, I find the odour from that pretty obnoxious with fresh material even in a darkroom with ventilation that definitely meets Kodak recommendatons and I would not want to scale up to 50x as much without reviewing the ventilation available (to put the hazard into some sort of context the OSHA exposure limits for H2S and hydrogen cyanide are actually currently about the same at 10ppm TWA - which is rather low - as far as I can determine).
Re face masks, yes they can offer useful protection but have to be the right type, fit correctly, and have a suitable cartridge installed (should say on it it is for H2S not paint or something else) which is not expired (again label should detail this).
Bottom line: I would suggest seeing if the process can be carried out with a (much) lower volume somehow or a toner that does not release much H2S (I think the thiourea system might be one such)

I do have a face mask with filters , I am going with Ians first suggestion of sodium sulphide rather than hydrogen sulphide. Are they the same thing?
thanks for the heads up. I think I will have about fifty litres of working solution as per Ians first post for the toner.