Silver recovery from used fixer

What function does the "used but not dead" developer perform in this process? How "used" does it have to be, how much do you have to add, and why does it have to be used developer?

mshchem said:

There was a refinery in Chicago, this was over 20 years back that recovered silver from old X-ray films. They used sodium cyanide, got in deep s*t when they had a leak. Don't get your hopes up. Refiners don't mess with small quantities, there's a assay fee. It's good thing to not pollute. I don't doubt anyone here, just sharing. Silver m.p. is 1763°F. 961°C

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hi mshchem
you are right, most refiners that I have been in contact with over the years aren't interested in a 35mm camera film container filled with black precipitate, but if someone has 30 troy oz, or a 20lb bucket that has traded silver for iron they might be interested.

the home user fiddling with a "baffle forge" and the fumes given off by burning off all the nasty crap that is in the fixer freak me out a little. ...
you know. ... sodium/ammonium thiosulfate, thiocyanate, metol, hq, glycin, borax, kbr, pyro, catechtol, ammonia, maybe KCn to name a few, and who knows what is in hc110, or commonly used non-metol developers, not to mention polyvinyl fillers and other crap that was traded off into the developer by the film and paper ... as I said on page one, post 17, a burn off sounds to me like a pretty good way to get sick.
its common knowledge that common sense isn't too common...

Wayne said:

What function does the "used but not dead" developer perform in this process? How "used" does it have to be, how much do you have to add, and why does it have to be used developer?

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I rarely use developer to the 'end' of its use.. and there is no sense in adding fresh developer that has NOT been used
that can be both expensive and thus more than just 'wasteful'.

I am more than surprised at the 'negativity' of some of the responses (probably more so from those with MUCH less
darkroom experience than my 65+ years 'under the dark-cloth'.

To those 'disbelievers' I now offer the challenge to (at least) 'GIVE IT A TRY'.. dammit!

I have a paper published in the Journal of Biological photography on 'how to photograph' unstained polyacrylamide jells for one of the scientists by using cross polarized transmitted polarized light (out of 'desperation) to record to film that which could be observed by the naked eye but was difficult (if not possible) to record to film by 'reflected' light. Sometimes the photographer has to think 'outside the normal' to record the best results.

How many might even 'think' of using 'used but not dead' developer to recover silver from used fixer. I found i could so do
by accidental stupidity... but I thought I might pass on the least expensive 'how-to' so do. (i.e. thinking somewhat outside the
'normal'.. but it seems to have 'raised the ire' of the unbelievers and nay-sayers.

Ken

KenS said:

I rarely use developer to the 'end' of its use.. and there is no sense in adding fresh developer that has NOT been used
that can be both expensive and thus more than just 'wasteful'.

I am more than surprised at the 'negativity' of some of the responses (probably more so from those with MUCH less
darkroom experience than my 65+ years 'under the dark-cloth'.

To those 'disbelievers' I now offer the challenge to (at least) 'GIVE IT A TRY'.. dammit!

Ken

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Uhhhhh.....I asked these questions because I want to know, and i want to know because I started trying it last night. I have old developer that is scarcely used or not used at all that I would prefer to use for this, and fresher developer that still has life left that I'd prefer not to use for this. That's why I asked. I also wanted to know "how much" developer you use because you only said "a volume" which isn't terribly helpful.

KenS said:

I am more than surprised at the 'negativity' of some of the responses (probably more so from those with MUCH less
darkroom experience than my 65+ years 'under the dark-cloth'.

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I don't think any of it has anything to do with your CV or your photographic-prowess
but they get turned off by someone telling them over and over again to do things,
oh, and when it comes to silver recovery people are lazy and/or don't care

as I have expressed earlier in this thread
it would be nice to know what resides on the silver flake because its not just silver and it would be nice to know how efficient the system is at removing silver from low and high concentrations seeing some processes work better with high concentrations and some work with lower ones.

As someone who seems gung ho about this process (you have talked about in several threads) it would be nice if you knew some details. If you've ever read silver recovery threads I have participated in I at least attempt to answer questions when I have been asked about a process / device I am talking about. Sadly I guess if I want to know these things I'd have to do this process myself, which I don't plan on doing, not because I don't believe it will work but because I don't want to deal with spending $$ on lab work for a process I will never do.

best of luck / have fun

The facts is, most of the negativity has been imaginary.

Wayne said:

The facts is, most of the negativity has been imaginary.

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Wayne...
I was more than surprised with the 'negativity' (no pun intended) but I thought it might be worth the time (and effort) to 'share' my experience on the 'how-to recover silver from used fixer' rather than have it going into a sewer system to be 'lost' forever.

Ken

KenS said:

Wayne...
I was more than surprised with the 'negativity' (no pun intended) but I thought it might be worth the time (and effort) to 'share' my experience on the 'how-to recover silver from used fixer' rather than have it going into a sewer system to be 'lost' forever.

Ken

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and yet when someone who wants to try it asks questions to try and understand it better, you accuse them of negativity and disbelief rather than try and be helpful.

KenS said:

Wayne...
I was more than surprised with the 'negativity' (no pun intended) but I thought it might be worth the time (and effort) to 'share' my experience on the 'how-to recover silver from used fixer' rather than have it going into a sewer system to be 'lost' forever.

Ken

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When you post on a forum, you need to accept there will be negative responses. If you are proposing something you find worthwhile, your point will come across much more clearly and strongly if you simply do not address the negative responses but reiterate your claim and answer genuine questions. I just read through all the posts from the beginning - there was really only one consistently derisive commenter, the rest were asking what appear to be genuine questions, like those asked by Wayne.

I am NOT a 'chemist' by any means.. and am willing to 'wager' that I will never become one. The 'recovery means came
by a 'stupid' mistake brought on due a rather long day in the darkroom meeting the needs of a 'client' who was in urgent need of the prints I was making for him and I poured my 'used but not dead' fixer into the carboy of 'ready to use developer.
24 hours (or so) later as i was setting up to make some more prints I notice the layer of a 'black powder that had 'settled to the bottom of the 'used but not dead paper developer' realizing I had (perhaps) made a big boo-boo.
I later contacted Dr Mowery, (via my 'contact with Dr. Martin King (head of Medical/Scientific imaging at Kodak (who had sat in on my oral examination/interview for my 'Board Certification as a Registered BIological Photographer. and I sked asking 'what I had done 'wrong' he indicated that I had come across 'perhaps the least expensive/easiest means of recovering the PUREST form of silver you could possibly acquire and invited me to contact Dr. Mowery who then replied that I had come-by the least expensive means of recovering silver from used fixer. That 'recovered' silver was known as "Black Silver" the purest form of silver you can 'get' and could be melted and.. when cooled down to a silver 'blob'.
I decided that this 'information/procedure' might be of interest and some provide monetary 'relief' to others and posted the means on-line. I was.. (and still am) somewhat surprised at the number negative 'YOU are full of S**T" or "You do NOT know what you are talking about" responses...
So much so that I have been having some serious thoughts towards 'quitting this forum

I 'think' I have somewhat of a 'thick skin' and believe I do have some 'valid' knowledge/experience of the how-to and why of photography.after some 60-odd years under the dark-cloth 35+ of which provide me with my annual income ... but have been considering 'walking away' rather than putting up with the recent negativity.(No pun intended)

Ken

KenS said:

I am NOT a 'chemist' by any means.. and am willing to 'wager' that I will never become one. The 'recovery means came
by a 'stupid' mistake brought on due a rather long day in the darkroom meeting the needs of a 'client' who was in urgent need of the prints I was making for him and I poured my 'used but not dead' fixer into the carboy of 'ready to use developer.
24 hours (or so) later as i was setting up to make some more prints I notice the layer of a 'black powder that had 'settled to the bottom of the 'used but not dead paper developer' realizing I had (perhaps) made a big boo-boo.
I later contacted Dr Mowery, (via my 'contact with Dr. Martin King (head of Medical/Scientific imaging at Kodak (who had sat in on my oral examination/interview for my 'Board Certification as a Registered BIological Photographer. and I sked asking 'what I had done 'wrong' he indicated that I had come across 'perhaps the least expensive/easiest means of recovering the PUREST form of silver you could possibly acquire and invited me to contact Dr. Mowery who then replied that I had come-by the least expensive means of recovering silver from used fixer. That 'recovered' silver was known as "Black Silver" the purest form of silver you can 'get' and could be melted and.. when cooled down to a silver 'blob'.
I decided that this 'information/procedure' might be of interest and some provide monetary 'relief' to others and posted the means on-line. I was.. (and still am) somewhat surprised at the number negative 'YOU are full of S**T" or "You do NOT know what you are talking about" responses...
So much so that I have been having some serious thoughts towards 'quitting this forum

I 'think' I have somewhat of a 'thick skin' and believe I do have some 'valid' knowledge/experience of the how-to and why of photography.after some 60-odd years under the dark-cloth 35+ of which provide me with my annual income ... but have been considering 'walking away' rather than putting up with the recent negativity.(No pun intended)

Ken

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There hasn't been anything even remotely resembling negativity toward you in this thread in a month. There have only been honest questions, trying to find out more details about you did this, so that I can try it. I thought that's why you posted it?

You drill a hole in the bottom of an old paint can, stuff it full of steel wool and drain the fixer through it. Remove the steel wool and shake it over a piece of newspaper, thus releasing silver.

I just picked up a bundle of Kodak publications from Classified. I was interested in the basic chemistry publications, but the bundle came with "J-9, Silver Recovery with the Kodak Chemical Recovery Cartridge, Type P" and "J-10, Recovering Silver from Photographic Materials". The steel wool method (ion exchange) method appears to be the main capture method proposed. The second brochure goes into some alternate methods, recovering silver from paper and film remnants, plus talks about selling the captured materials (silver sludge).

cliveh said:

You drill a hole in the bottom of an old paint can, stuff it full of steel wool and drain the fixer through it. Remove the steel wool and shake it over a piece of newspaper, thus releasing silver.

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...thus releasing silver... sludge.

Hi KenS, I would like to try this. Can you confirm if you mix the fixer and developer 1:1 or does it matter?

thefizz said:

Hi KenS, I would like to try this. Can you confirm if you mix the fixer and developer 1:1 or does it matter?

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Sorry... but I have no idea of the proportion of 'used but not dead developer' to 'used fixer'... my 'recovery' means came about 'by mistake'.. ie I had poured the remaining developer into the carboy of used fixer rather than the one into which I poured the remaining paper developer. If my memory serves me well enough It was after a somewhat 'long day' of
finishing a 'job' that was 'needed' for a scientist for whom I had done a lot of work over the years I spent in that Government Department... and was somewhat more than 'ready for a good night's sleep.
As I stated before I was somewhat surprised to find an inch (or so) of a black precipitate.. and I did not know what or 'how that" had happened.. which had me contacting Dr Martin Scott (head honcho of Kodak's 'Medical/Scientific' department. He suggested I contact Dr. Mowery (a 'chemistry scientist') which I did... and he replied that I had (by accident) found the cheapest/easiest means of recovering from 'used' fixer he also indicated that the 'black silver that formed the precipitate was the "purest form of silver you could get (acquire) and suggested it could/should
be melted down. after giving it a 'good washing' to remove as much of the developer chemicals as possible

I thought providing that means of recovering silver from used developer might might be of interest to the form contributors/members/visitors... I guess I was WRONG.. and have been receiving 'feedback' that I am 'wrong'.. it is 'dangerous'/ not as efficient/more 'work' as other means/methods currently used by some of this forum's readers/contributors.

I am now giving serious 'consideration ' about 'disappearing' after 'deleting any (and all) of my posts to this forum..
I don't need the "bull-sh*t" of how others seem to think that "their way" is "easier/less expensive/better/safer'.
or "I don't know what I am talking about", you are full of s**t"... even after my 65+ years 'under the dark-cloth.. of which 35 (or there-abouts) were as a technical/scientific photographer with Agriculture Canada' Research Branch. I am willing and able to 'say' that I still don't 'know enough' about the art and/or the craft of photography. BUT...I DO HAVE the framed "Parchments" hanging up on my 'bragging wall' a few feet to my right...and.. I hope, I am still 'learning'

Ken

I don't see the negativity you speak of. Maybe it came from the 2 or 3 members that are on my ignore list. If you meant the questions by me and others, you seem to misinterpret them. Your method is of interest to us, that is precisely why we are asking questions.
Ken, you're a valued member of this forum and I for one hope you stay. Nonetheless maybe you should take some deep breaths and re-evaluate what you seek in this forum, because if it's being shielded from disagreement of even questions, that's simply not realistic.

Wayne said:

What function does the "used but not dead" developer perform in this process? How "used" does it have to be, how much do you have to add, and why does it have to be used developer?

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Wayne.
How often do you 'really' re-use your film developer. I stopped using the more common 'commercial' film developers in favour of a "mix for yourself" (such as Pyrocat HD) as a means of reducing my photography processing 'costs'.
I believe you will find you rarely (if ever.. as I did) get the 'most use' of your film (or B/W paper developer developer).
Rarely does any 'normal B/W film developer "die' on you during the development process... there is usually some 'life left in used developer.. so why not put it to a good use.. such as 'recovering pure 'black silver' from well used fixer.

I have to admit that I am somewhat 'surprised' at the NEGATIVE responses (NO pun intended) to my suggestion of the 'how to recover the purest form of silver available.. ie 'black silver'. You may then have it melted down 'for sale'

I could but wish that Dr. Ron Mowery was still with us to 'spread the word'.

Ken

You are clearly here just to goad people asking honest questions. This thread and you go on ignore. I was trying to try your method, but I will stop trying immediately.

Wayne said:

That's cool...what did you photograph?

And I'm not doubting you, I did terrible in chemistry despite my biological schooling. I've seen black silver deposits on bottles of used fixer and blixer I had laying around. I'm not sure why it happened sometimes and not others.

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I photographed (using 35mm Ektachrome and LF B/W sheet film) of whatever was carried (or 'trundled in on a lab-cart through the doorway.. I never knew who or what or for whom the next 'job' was next. All the chromes were processes in a Wing-Lynch within hours
The required 'results were too often required within hours. So.. make more exposures while the 'Machine" did what it was designed to do... we even had to invest in a 'machine' (but I cannot for the life of me 'remember' the name that would mount a whole roll in less than 2.5 minutes. In a majority of my years there I never knew 'what' would 'come through the doorway.. But for day per week I had to do all the film processing for the Electron Microscopy lab in the next 'room' (in the basement), all B/W film was rocesssed with one to two hours.
The ONE machine I would have just LOVED to have had to use was for 'scanning light' photo-macrography

( somehow I feel there's more than one reader going to do an on-line search for that one within the hour'

The most difficult thing was to NOT become any-what 'placent' but all to often, there was little to NO chance for a
're-do'. Much of the work was somewhat repetitive but I had to give every subject the same 'respect' after asking the client 'What is the most important 'thing' you are in need of 'showing in the final image?.. and produce the 'resulting' print/slide within (or most often.. before the required time-line) when 'everything turned out well enough to meet 'my'
quality standards. My last 5 (or so) years i was doing the same amount of 'work' that for many years had 'required 3 photographers... All that being 'said'.. I was somewhat disappointed when they department needed the 'floor-space I occupied to 'house' the scientific staff that were transferred 'here' (Lethbridge, Alberta) after closing the research Centre in downtown Ottawa.
My PhD-type daughter then challenged me to register to earn my BFA at the nearby University (as a means of staying out of the rocking chair and 'away from day-tome television.. so I did, and I now have three framed (earned) "parchments" hanging on a wall within six feet of where I now sit to hunt and peck.. and 'inwardly digest' whatever catches my 'fancy'. The ONE piece of 'hardware I would still love to aquire, would be for 'scanning light photo-macroscopy

Ken

Post scriptum....
I'll be willing to wager that [within the next 48 (or so) hours] there's going to be numerous 'web' searches for further information on "Scanning Light Photo-macroscopy"