Silver recovery from used fixer

KenS · Feb 15, 2021

I have taken to 'recover' the silver from my used film and B/W paper fixer rather than pouring it down the drain.. where it gets 'lost for ever (or in the case of you 'out-of-owners.. your septic tank.

I came across this 'technique' by an accidental 'screw-up' but not that much later was informed by the late Ron Mowery
(spp?) a retired chemical engineer at Kodak that this method was both cost efficient and 'probably' the 'cheapest and
most efficient means of preventing the loss of valuable silver. There my be some 'dis-believers' 'out there, but before you
call me either a 'liar' or 'nut case' 'try it for yourselves.

Ken

Wayne · Feb 15, 2021

Try what?

gordrob · Feb 15, 2021

We are waiting Ken

Don_ih · Feb 15, 2021

Enquiring minds want to know.

Wayne · Feb 15, 2021

earth + fire = stone
fire + stone = metals
earth + stone = sedimentary rock
metals + sedimentary rock = silver!!!!!!

AgX · Feb 15, 2021

earth + wind +fire = music

KenS · Feb 15, 2021

Wayne said:
Try what?

Recovering silver from used fixer..

Silver Recovery in the Home Darkroom.

This information was provided to me by the late Ron Mowery (a chemical
engineer at Kodak
I'm not sure why I'm getting the extra 'space between 'lines' But here it be

After many years, I have taken to stop dumping my used film and print

fixer ‘down the drain and have been recovering the silver from all

print and film fixers rather than disposing used silver-loaded chemicals

down the drain….. to be ‘lost forever”

All used B/W film and Print fixer is NOT going into the municipal sewer

system or perhaps an out-of-town septic tank (where it is ‘lost forever)

I have a large glass carboy into which I ‘dump’ ALL my well used fixer..

I then add a volume of used-but-not ‘dead film and paper developer

put the cap on (nice and ‘snug) and give the carboy a good shake’ (over the

next few days and ‘eventually set it down until there is a layer of a black ‘powder’

‘on the bottom of the carboy.

I then make the effort to “gently’ syphon off as much of the ‘clear’ liquid as possible

leaving an ‘inch or so’ of liquid ‘above the black layer.

I add more used fixer and a little more ‘used but not dead developer’..

again… shake well to get a ‘good mix’ then let it settle again (it may take a

day or more or until I have more fixer for ‘disposal’

After numerous ‘sessions’ of add used fix and used but not dead developer

and the shake and allow to settle I have what is known as “Black Silver”

(the purest form of silver you can ‘get/find’ after couple of good washings with

warm water and a last one with distilled water.

The carboy and contents are once more given a good ‘shaking’ to get the

black ‘powder’ somewhat evenly ‘distributed’ and then ‘gently put through

a conical filter paper and ‘allowed to dry.

The recovered black ‘dust’ is (apparently) the purest form of silver you can get.

Melt that down in a muffle furnace or at a jewellery repair facility for melting

(perhaps0 for a ‘percentage’ of the value.. or sell it to them ‘outright’

It IS a bit more of an effort (and your ‘time’) but so much better than pouring

it down the drain ‘to be LOST forever”.

For those of you ‘out of town, it ‘may’ do some damage to your septic system (or…so I’ve been told)

Sirius Glass · Feb 15, 2021

KenS said:
Recovering silver from used fixer..
Silver Recovery in the Home Darkroom.
This information was provided to me by the late Ron Mowery (a chemical engineer at Kodak
I'm not sure why I'm getting the extra 'space between 'lines' But here it be
After many years, I have taken to stop dumping my used film and print fixer ‘down the drain and have been recovering the silver from all print and film fixers rather than disposing used silver-loaded chemicalsdown the drain….. to be ‘lost forever”

All used B/W film and Print fixer is NOT going into the municipal sewer system or perhaps an out-of-town septic tank (where it is ‘lost forever)
I have a large glass carboy into which I ‘dump’ ALL my well used fixer.. I then add a volume of used-but-not ‘dead film and paper developer put the cap on (nice and ‘snug) and give the carboy a good shake’ (over the next few days and ‘eventually set it down until there is a layer of a black ‘powder’ ‘on the bottom of the carboy. I then make the effort to “gently’ syphon off as much of the ‘clear’ liquid as possible leaving an ‘inch or so’ of liquid ‘above the black layer. I add more used fixer and a little more ‘used but not dead developer’.. again… shake well to get a ‘good mix’ then let it settle again (it may take a day or more or until I have more fixer for ‘disposal’ After numerous ‘sessions’ of add used fix and used but not dead developer and the shake and allow to settle I have what is known as “Black Silver” (the purest form of silver you can ‘get/find’ after couple of good washings with warm water and a last one with distilled water. The carboy and contents are once more given a good ‘shaking’ to get the black ‘powder’ somewhat evenly ‘distributed’ and then ‘gently put through a conical filter paper and ‘allowed to dry.
The recovered black ‘dust’ is (apparently) the purest form of silver you can get.
Melt that down in a muffle furnace or at a jewellery repair facility for melting (perhaps) for a ‘percentage’ of the value.. or sell it to them ‘outright’
It IS a bit more of an effort (and your ‘time’) but so much better than pouring it down the drain ‘to be LOST forever”.

For those of you ‘out of town, it ‘may’ do some damage to your septic system (or…so I’ve been told)

Interesting. I considering doing this. I do not have a way to melt it down. I will look here for more related ideas.

AgX · Feb 16, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
I do not have a way to melt it down.

-) use an enemal-oven, but those that reach a temperature high enough are expensive, unless you find a used one of the right temperature by accident at a yard sale.
The advantage of this approach is that one could locate the oven in the open and stand away. By this keeping gases (from resting oxdized developing agent etc.) away.
-) use a torch

Sirius Glass · Feb 16, 2021

AgX said:
-) use an enemal-oven, but those that reach a temperature high enough are expensive, unless you find a used one of the right temperature by accident at a yard sale.
The advantage of this approach is that one could locate the oven in the open and stand away. By this keeping gases (from resting oxdized developing agent etc.) away.
-) use a torch

The first is not possible.
The second I would have to buy a torch and have a place to safely use it. The cost is probably higher for the torch than the silver and finding a safe place will be hard.

Andrew O'Neill · Feb 16, 2021

Is it possible to reclaim silver from exposed photo paper and film? So much paper gets tossed here at school.

AgX · Feb 16, 2021

Yes, of course. That is done at the industry too, bleachfixing.

nosmok · Feb 19, 2021

I take my spent fixer and pour it over steel wool and let it set for a few weeks, filter out the metal bits (Ag and FeO2), and then pour the liquid down my sewer mainline well-diluted. Hope I'm doing the right thing or at least heading in the right direction.

AgX · Feb 19, 2021

In contrast to the OP you are not draining the developer.
(If I understood you both right.)

138S · Feb 19, 2021

KenS said:
Recovering silver from used fixer..

Silver Recovery in the Home Darkroom.

This information was provided to me by the late Ron Mowery (a chemical
engineer at Kodak
I'm not sure why I'm getting the extra 'space between 'lines' But here it be

After many years, I have taken to stop dumping my used film and print

fixer ‘down the drain and have been recovering the silver from all

print and film fixers rather than disposing used silver-loaded chemicals

down the drain….. to be ‘lost forever”

All used B/W film and Print fixer is NOT going into the municipal sewer

system or perhaps an out-of-town septic tank (where it is ‘lost forever)

I have a large glass carboy into which I ‘dump’ ALL my well used fixer..

I then add a volume of used-but-not ‘dead film and paper developer

put the cap on (nice and ‘snug) and give the carboy a good shake’ (over the

next few days and ‘eventually set it down until there is a layer of a black ‘powder’

‘on the bottom of the carboy.

I then make the effort to “gently’ syphon off as much of the ‘clear’ liquid as possible

leaving an ‘inch or so’ of liquid ‘above the black layer.

I add more used fixer and a little more ‘used but not dead developer’..

again… shake well to get a ‘good mix’ then let it settle again (it may take a

day or more or until I have more fixer for ‘disposal’

After numerous ‘sessions’ of add used fix and used but not dead developer

and the shake and allow to settle I have what is known as “Black Silver”

(the purest form of silver you can ‘get/find’ after couple of good washings with

warm water and a last one with distilled water.

The carboy and contents are once more given a good ‘shaking’ to get the

black ‘powder’ somewhat evenly ‘distributed’ and then ‘gently put through

a conical filter paper and ‘allowed to dry.

The recovered black ‘dust’ is (apparently) the purest form of silver you can get.

Melt that down in a muffle furnace or at a jewellery repair facility for melting

(perhaps0 for a ‘percentage’ of the value.. or sell it to them ‘outright’

It IS a bit more of an effort (and your ‘time’) but so much better than pouring

it down the drain ‘to be LOST forever”.

For those of you ‘out of town, it ‘may’ do some damage to your septic system (or…so I’ve been told)

There are several ways, but the one I've tried is metal substitution. ("To precipitate silver out of fixer, just toss in some of aluminum foil. The aluminum will swap places with the silver which falls to the bottom of the container")

Using iron (steel wool) instead Alluminium is nicer for the environement friendly...

Of course for personal usage recovery has little economic impact, but since 2004 until 2011 silver multiplied its price by x10... at one point recovery produced a remarkable incoming, paying for (at least) share of the processing chem expenses.

Since the pandemy started silver price has neraly doubled...

grain elevator · Feb 19, 2021

Sorry, I have a hard time believing that Ron Mowrey wrote about "black silver".
In any case, how does it work? Does the added develop the silver dissolved in the fixer? Why doesn't everyone for this instead of the more complex galvanic process?

removed account4 · Feb 19, 2021

grain elevator said:
Sorry, I have a hard time believing that Ron Mowrey wrote about "black silver".
In any case, how does it work? Does the added develop the silver dissolved in the fixer? Why doesn't everyone for this instead of the more complex galvanic process?

IDK. Ron used to say all sorts of stuff. I can see him saying if you put developer in spent fixer black stuff precipitates from it, but the whole blasting it in a muffle furnace / crucible thing where it gives off toxic fumes is where I draw the line. LOL HAHAHA
if folks need a test kit to determine how well their silver extraction methods ( like kens ) are working efficiently let me know I sell them so you can see if your methods remove as much as you need to remove...
have fun doing your mad scientist stuff and make sure you have a fume hood for your blast furnace routine..
John

KenS · Feb 19, 2021

Recovering silver from used fixer..
..
OK It seems as if we have numerous 'dis-believers' on my 'how to recover silver from used fixer" pos
Mostly, I believe, from those who have NOT tried it.

Not one of whom could "prove' that am WRONG

So.. I have decided to offer each and every one of those disbelievers a chance to PROVE me wrong ( ie do it for yourselves and see just how well that 'Silver recovery' WORKS... It does not just happen 'over-night' So.. I challenge each and everyone of you
'disbelievers' To follow the procedure. It does take 'time' so I'm not asking you to 'stand there' and watch it happen overnight
or even a 24-hour period. You have to 'activate' it now and again by syphoning off the 'clear' liquid 'above the black precipitate after the chemical reaction has had the opportunity to keep adding more used fixer and more used fixer

In the meantime... I will now 'sit back' an await the "I'm sorry.. you were right.. It DOES work.. just the way you said it does".

I've been 'working under the dark-cloth for over 65 years (30+ of which were as a 'full-time' "Registered Biological Photographer"
in the employ of Agriculture Canada's Research Branch.

Ken Sinclair SDA, BFA, RBP, FBPA

Wayne · Feb 19, 2021

KenS said:
I've been 'working under the dark-cloth for over 65 years (30+ of which were as a 'full-time' "Registered Biological Photographer"
in the employ of Agriculture Canada's Research Branch.

Ken Sinclair SDA, BFA, RBP, FBPA

That's cool...what did you photograph?

And I'm not doubting you, I did terrible in chemistry despite my biological schooling. I've seen black silver deposits on bottles of used fixer and blixer I had laying around. I'm not sure why it happened sometimes and not others.

Besk · Feb 19, 2021

The black silver is probably some sort of silver oxide. And I too have had it as a deposit on used fixer bottles. I definitely will try it out.

removed account4 · Feb 19, 2021

KenS said:
OK It seems as if we have numerous 'dis-believers' on my 'how to recover silver from used fixer" pos
Mostly, I believe, from those who have NOT tried it.

hi KenS
not sure if it is me you are suggesting should apologize to you? I didn't say anything wrong or doubt you or PE.
As I said, PE said all sorts of wild stuff that I can't even wrap my head around. What I DID SAY seeing you suggested people burn off impurities, is that when you burn off the impurities in a muffle furnace it gives off toxic fumes which is what refiners tell me ( and you don't mention ).
I have been involved with silver recovery systems on and off since the late 1980s I have learned a little bit about
what happens to the silver flake and precipitates.
I figure if someone is doing silver recovery they might also be interested in test kits to determine efficiency, and if they do, I sell test kits ...
you know to determine how saturated someone's fixer is both when it is high ( 50+ parts / million ) and low ( 5 parts/million and less ) ...
so someone can determine how much silver is left in their solution if they have a required limit they have to meet ... some systems allow for multiple passes so
send it through the system ( non electrolytic ) a second or third time. nothing will remove 100%.
Lol yeah, for IDK 22 years I do silver recovery myself, I have flake and use a tank, but as I also mentioned I won't burn off the impurities, that is where I draw the line LOL HAHAHA

have fun with your photography and thanks for doing silver recovery ( and telling others how to do it too ) !

BAC1967 · Feb 19, 2021

Kind of related to this, I recently collected the black gunk from the bottom of my fix and concentrated it and diluted out the fix with distilled water. I put a drop of the gunk/distilled water under a cover slip on a microscope slide to take a look at it under the microscope. It just looked like a bunch of grains scattered about, not very interesting. The next day when I went back to look at it I wasn't really expecting much but was a bit surprised at what I saw. It looks like the grains may have had some kind of ionic attractions, they formed lines and branches. Some grains just stayed spread out. You can kind of see at the end of each branch there are thicker bunches of grains, like blobs of silver are leaving trails behind them. It would be cool to try to grow crystals with it but I think that would involve dissolving it with nitric acid, not something I want to mess with.

These were photographed with a Leica IIIf using a Leitz MIKAS microscope adapter. The film is Ilford FP4+ developed in Beer.

Wayne · Feb 20, 2021

The silver blobs were running away, "no, no, anything but the muffle furnace!"

Cool pic!

grain elevator · Feb 20, 2021

In case you meant me, my disbelief was limited to the claim that the info came directly from Ron Mowrey, because he would have used more precise language than a made up term like "black silver". I can believe it works, my question how it works is out of genuine interest. And I'd also like to know how much silver this gets out of the fixer, i.e. is the liquid then really safe to go down the drain? And what do you do with the black stuff if you don't melt if down yourself, does someone buy it?

RalphLambrecht · Feb 20, 2021

Andrew O'Neill said:
Is it possible to reclaim silver from exposed photo paper and film? So much paper gets tossed here at school.

You need to fixit first to get thesilver out off the emulsion; then, process as above but frankly this is all a bit OTT for me.

Silver recovery from used fixer

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