Shutter of Belplasca releases, but all speeds arereally fast

[Michael Wurm]

Hi everyone,

I recently bought a Belplasca camera from eastern Germany from around 1955. Everything works fine except for one problem:

The shutter releases principally as it is supposed to, but no matter where I set the shutter speed, I will always end up with a really fast speed (I guess the fastest) except for when I set it on B. If set on B, it does what it should.
I really love this camera and would like to get it back to work properly, especially because all the rest is in perfect condition.

Does anyone have any idea what could be the problem?

Has anybody else had this problem on a belplasca or any other camera from that time?

A guy called 3DJack has supplied some very good repair info on other problems with the Belplasca. I hope he is gonna read my post and has any idea. Unfortunately I myself cant write him directly right now due to restrictions in this forum and me being new here.

Thank you so much!

 

[Dan Daniel]

Hi everyone,

I recently bought a Belplasca camera from eastern Germany from around 1955. Everything works fine except for one problem:

The shutter releases principally as it is supposed to, but no matter where I set the shutter speed, I will always end up with a really fast speed (I guess the fastest) except for when I set it on B. If set on B, it does what it should.
I really love this camera and would like to get it back to work properly, especially because all the rest is in perfect condition.

Does anyone have any idea what could be the problem?

Has anybody else had this problem on a belplasca or any other camera from that time?

A guy called 3DJack has supplied some very good repair info on other problems with the Belplasca. I hope he is gonna read my post and has any idea. Unfortunately I myself cant write him directly right now due to restrictions in this forum and me being new here.

Thank you so much!

With leaf shutters, what you describe usually means that the escapement is gummed up and so will not move to the various positions that make for different speeds. You'll need to clean the escapement(s?). As to how to go about this, I don't know. Maybe post a few photos of the camera lenses and shutters?

In the meantime, go ahead and reply to this post. And do that a few more times. Eventually you'll hit the magic number to be able to send a message to someone- five is typical? So post away!

 

[Michael Wurm]

Thank you for your answer!

Yes, the camera has two leaf shutters (one behind each lens). Yes, your idea explains the shutter failure exactly I think!

I asked some serviceman from Berlin who has a good repetition but he gave me a dubious reply only and said it will cost roughly 200€ for a camera that cost me 180.
I have some experience with repairing microscopes and lenses so I think I could probably do it on my own.

Will post some pictures soon.

 

[Michael Wurm]

There are two big questions left:

a) I dont know how to get into the camera to the shutter. 3DJack posted some pictures from the inside which will help but it will still be a challenge. If anybody has opend the belplasca and has some know-how, please let me know!

b) once I´m inside I have to locate the problem with the escapement and fix it. But so far I have zero knowledge on how a leaf shutter works. Probably many people have done it before and have some valuable tips. I think it doesnt depend so much on the camera model.

 

[Michael Wurm]

 

[dxqcanada]

Hmm, I think you have found this old thread ... if you have not worked with leaf shutters and mechanisms like this, you might do more harm than good.
You can read the course material on the Learn Camera Repair site to get info about shutters.

 

[Dan Daniel]

I don't know these cameras directly. Looking at the front of the camera I assume that pretty well everything is happening under the front plate. This includes the mechanism to keep the two lenses in sync for focusing, which adds an extra element.

WHat is the lens type? Interesting that the shutter leaves are bare on the back; usually shutters are between lens groups. Heck, you could drip very small amounts of some lighter fluid on the shutter blades and operate it a few times to see if some solvent gets to the right spot. Is there a Bulb setting for the shutter? If so, then you can clean off fluid that might get onto the back of the lens doing this method.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

I agree it looks like everything is behind the front plate.

The question is - how does the front plate come off.

From some rather detailed photos on ebay it looks like removing the focusing and aperture rings from the lenses may reveal retaining rings that are holding the front plate. You would also have to remove the shutter speed knob, naturally.

Another possibility is that the screws holding the front plate to the camera may be behind the 'leatherette.'

Yet another common location for the attachment screws is the inside of the body. I can't see any in the picture, but they may be at the inner edges of the film cassette and take-up cavities.

Looks like a really nice camera. Pair of Zeiss Jena lenses, what's not to like?

 

[Michael Wurm]

Thank you all!
The lenses are Zeiss Tessar 37,5 mm 3,5. They are said to be really nice but I didnt test them so far.
Yes the shutters are behind the lenses.
I´m afraid of putting lighter-fluid there to be honest, because the lenses are coated and i cant exclude that organic solvent will harm them. But the idea is good, might be something I´d try if i cant get in.

 

[dxqcanada]

It really should be taken apart and the mechanics examined, repaired if necessary ... then cleaned and timing adjusted.

 

[Dan Daniel]

It really should be taken apart and the mechanics examined, repaired if necessary ... then cleaned and timing adjusted.

Agreed... but! This is a stereo camera with linked focus, shutter, and aperture. I would want either guidance or a good amount of experience on working with mechanisms like this before disassembly. And the question is always how involved someone wants to get. The $/Eu200 price from a repairman gives me the hint that this is not a simple pulling of a cover.

OP, if you go inside, take notes. Take lots of photos. And make index marks everywhere- pencil, and don't rub them off.

But first: will the lenses unscrew? Maybe they will come out, full lens assemblies. Leaving shutter only inside, where a little lighter fluid wouldn't get on lens surfaces.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Seek and ye shall find, and right under our noses:

BELPLASCA foggy viewfinder

Here are some pictures of partially dissembled Belplasca recently listed on eBay. It may be helpful to anybody trying to work on the shutter. I was able to lubricate the shutter without much disassembly. I removed the top for the viewfinder cleaning (thanks Jack!) and applied few tiny drops of...

www.photrio.com

It looks like the way to remove the front plate is to peel back the body leatherette on both sides of the plate (doh....).

 

[Michael Wurm]

Seek and ye shall find, and right under our noses:

Yes, you are right, thats the thread I ment (where 3DJack is involved) which I mentioned in the beginning.

But: It wasnt explained how to enter the front part, as far as I can recall.
I as well think that there should be (four) screws behind the leatherette according to the photos.

My original question was more on what could be wrong with the shutter.

I think I will try to get inside the camera these days and then post further pictures of the inside and the shutter and perhaps someone can help me identify the problem then, in case I cant find it myself.

Will keep you updated.

 

[Michael Wurm]

Agreed... but! This is a stereo camera with linked focus, shutter, and aperture. I would want either guidance or a good amount of experience on working with mechanisms like this before disassembly. And the question is always how involved someone wants to get. The $/Eu200 price from a repairman gives me the hint that this is not a simple pulling of a cover.

I wouldnt be too affraid of that. Other Belplasca users described the inside of the camera as very well organized and self-contained. To my knowledge belplascas are very repair-friendly.

But lets see...

 

[Dan Daniel]

I think I will try to get inside the camera these days and then post further pictures of the inside and the shutter and perhaps someone can help me identify the problem then, in case I cant find it myself.

Looking at the photos in the thread linked to, it looks as if there is one shutter mechanism, meaning escapements and such. And then I assume that there will be two parts that actually open and close the blades, not the one part typical for a single shutter. A nice solution to how to keep the two stereo images exposed the same! I like it.

So what this means is that the escapement is in the center area. If you can find it, wipe it down and clean it up and I bet your shutter speed issue will be solved.

My dire warning about the camera was simply to make certain that you know that this won't be simple. You know your skill and comfort level, and sounds like you are looking forward to digging in. Hope it goes well!

 

[Michael Wurm]

Yes, you are right about the shutter mechanism

Looking at the photos in the thread linked to, it looks as if there is one shutter mechanism, meaning escapements and such. And then I assume that there will be two parts that actually open and close the blades, not the one part typical for a single shutter. A nice solution to how to keep the two stereo images exposed the same! I like it.

So what this means is that the escapement is in the center area. If you can find it, wipe it down and clean it up and I bet your shutter speed issue will be solved.

My dire warning about the camera was simply to make certain that you know that this won't be simple. You know your skill and comfort level, and sounds like you are looking forward to digging in. Hope it goes well!

 

[Michael Wurm]

Hi,
I wanted to update you all.
I opened the Belplasca today and apart from the leatherette (removing it I guess always sucks) it was a pleasure to work on it. Everyting is perfectly self-contained! There was not a single part jumping out or anything like that and as far as I can see right now nothing got out of adjustment.
The lens unit with all the sync for the two lenses is one solid construct you can remove as a whole.

Theres one thing to be cautious of!!
! The lens unit is adjusted for beeing parallel to the film in a weird way. It was achieved by stacking varying numbers of paper discs below. They easily fall of and you have to note the exact number and store them for each screw separately in order to get everything parallel in the end again!

It seems like nobody takes notice or care of them so I cant say how important they are. Dont ask me how the heck the Belca staff originally adjusted it and why with paper

Anyways I had a look at the shutter and what should I say it seems to function properly after moving the parts carefully a bit. Now it does 1s almost perfectly!!
Guys I think your theory was perfectly right! It seems like everything was a bit sticking together in a way that the escapement didnt came to action.
It still seems to stick somewhat. So my plan is to put the shutter mechanism into cleaners benzine, if I an able to separate it from the leaf shutters. The leaf shutters are working perfectly and are clean so I would like to keep them as they are.
I plan to oil the bearings with oil for small watches (oil 1-3 Dr. Tillwich).

 

[Michael Wurm]

Here you can see the paper discs

 

[Michael Wurm]

 

[Michael Wurm]

The lens unit with the sync for focus, aperture and with the mechanism for parallax correction in the viewfinder

 

[Michael Wurm]

This is nasty! I found some scratches inside the lenses! For fucks sake who scratched them so much! Its between the front and rear lens but the objective doesnt seem to have been opened before. I guess it wont affect image quality too much but maybe thats wishful thinking

 

[Kino]

This is nasty! I found some scratches inside the lenses! For fucks sake who scratched them so much! Its between the front and rear lens but the objective doesnt seem to have been opened before. I guess it wont affect image quality too much but maybe thats wishful thinking

Really nice that the slow speed escapement is not encapsulated and you can treat it easily!

Don't worry too much about the scratches; the flashlight test for most lenses makes you want to curl up in the fetal position, but I'll bet the impact will be little to none.

 

[Michael Wurm]

Really nice that the slow speed escapement is not encapsulated and you can treat it easily!

Don't worry too much about the scratches; the flashlight test for most lenses makes you want to curl up in the fetal position, but I'll bet the impact will be little to none.

Nice to hear that. But I still have absolutely no idea how somebody scratched this so badly

 

[Kino]

Nice to hear that. But I still have absolutely no idea how somebody scratched this so badly

You should see a Rolleiflex 3.5f I found in a thrift store. The lens looks like it was literally rubbed with sand paper. It's a shelf queen; strictly for display.

 

[Michael Wurm]

The escapement is in benzine now and everything seems to work perfectly.

I cleaned the viewfinder today which was very hazy and the rear lenses of the objectives.

I am unable to open the front of the objectives so far, in order to clean the front lens elements from the inside where there is some fungus and haze.
If somebody has tips for that i would be really happy. Tried it hard today!

Thank you all for your help so far!
Michael