Should yu approach a person and ask to take their photograph

[RalphLambrecht]

if the person is the main subject ask.

 

[guangong]

The answer to the question posed by the OP depends largely on the photographer with regards to street photography. Being somewhat backward, I prefer not to make subject aware of my presence. One the other hand, my friend the late Lou Stettnerhad a naturally gregarious personality found it easy to approach people. He was also a master of candid photography.
As for the Doisneau “Kiss”, part of its original appreciation was the ability of the photographer to capture a spontaneous moment with agile camera action. Once revealed to be a fraud it’s more like the theatrical reconstructions now used in some historical documentary films, which are also unconvincing when compared with real historical footage.
Ignoring artificial advertising photography, photography long ago went through the stage of imitating painting, drawing and the other graphic arts, and instead deals with a kind of found reality. Unlike a painter, a photographer cannot alter a landscape to fit his composition but must find a composition within the reality. (Except for the glistening beer can). This is one reason we at APUG shoot film and not digital+computer modifications.

 

[faberryman]

Unlike a painter, a photographer cannot alter a landscape to fit his composition but must find a composition within the reality. (Except for the glistening beer can). This is one reason we at APUG shoot film and not digital+computer modifications.

Bollocks. You can "find a composition within the reality" in the same way with film and digital. It's up to you how you shoot.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

i'm skittish when I take street shots so I try to grab them surreptitiously. In any case I think they're better that way as they're not posed. How would I have gotten shots like these by asking permission?
https://www.flickr.com/search/?sort...1&tags=candid&user_id=55760757@N05&view_all=1

 

[jtk]

I "ask" and explain what I'm doing. I like the interaction and it enriches photos more than it takes away.

Do what you want, but my motto is "man up!"

Also, if one is a competent photographer one can "stage" something at least as valuable as any street snap.

 

[guangong]

Bollocks. You can "find a composition within the reality" in the same way with film and digital. It's up to you how you shoot.

If you had read what I wrote carefully you would realize that was what I was saying. The difference is that composition of a photograph depends on the reality of the scene and the photographer must find the composition. For example, I have been making a study of a very old cherry tree through the seasons that is on my proper. With film, not so easy. One very good composition of tree marred by county road in background. With digital+Photoshop or drawing road could be removed. From another direction branches of tree only permits a weaker composition. A drawing could tweak branches to make a stronger composition. Finally found a composition that pleases me.

My own observations of those that use digital capture find refraining from Photoshop very difficult. I do use digital capture for certain projects to take advantage of this possibility.

 

[removed account4]

If you had read what I wrote carefully you would realize that was what I was saying. The difference is that composition of a photograph depends on the reality of the scene and the photographer must find the composition. For example, I have been making a study of a very old cherry tree through the seasons that is on my proper. With film, not so easy. One very good composition of tree marred by county road in background. With digital+Photoshop or drawing road could be removed. From another direction branches of tree only permits a weaker composition. A drawing could tweak branches to make a stronger composition. Finally found a composition that pleases me.

My own observations of those that use digital capture find refraining from Photoshop very difficult. I do use digital capture for certain projects to take advantage of this possibility.

hi guangong

i know what you mean but there are ways of "altering reality / composition" with fim and paper without using photoshop or hybrid methods ...
you could INCLUDE the road to somehow be incorporated into the cherrytree landscape like a line, you could take the negative and combination print
the road section with another photograph of the area around the tree .. ( masking and burning it in ) you could use leads to retouch the negative and dodge / burn the street out
you could change where you are standing and not have street in the view at all, or wait for the grass to grow and shoot at a different DOF to obscure the road
or if you have an enlarger with bellows obscure it through lens shift when you print it ... and my personal favorite is to take an exacto knife to the offending part
and have whatever it is you want ... there, and then retouch the edges after you make a print of the print ... or you could just relish the fact that there is a road in the photograph ...
and use it as a marker to show how the tree has endured its relationship with humanity ...
reality is what you make of it ... and from the time our eyes are opened and we are spanked by the DR.
we make reality our own .. we use our imaginations and our experiences and turn a pot of "rock soup" into a feast ...

oops i for got to mention YMMV

i just wish i could shoot the street like colin corneau. he does magic with his camera .. no backs of heads no photographs of butts for the peanut gallery to say "nice shot!" no homeless guy that he threw a $5 bill at
or guy passed out on a bag of trash with $ next to him ...

just humanity and life ...

 

[guangong]

hi guangong

i know what you mean but there are ways of "altering reality / composition" with fim and paper without using photoshop or hybrid methods ...
you could INCLUDE the road to somehow be incorporated into the cherrytree landscape like a line, you could take the negative and combination print
the road section with another photograph of the area around the tree .. ( masking and burning it in ) you could use leads to retouch the negative and dodge / burn the street out
you could change where you are standing and not have street in the view at all, or wait for the grass to grow and shoot at a different DOF to obscure the road
or if you have an enlarger with bellows obscure it through lens shift when you print it ... and my personal favorite is to take an exacto knife to the offending part
and have whatever it is you want ... there, and then retouch the edges after you make a print of the print ... or you could just relish the fact that there is a road in the photograph ...
and use it as a marker to show how the tree has endured its relationship with humanity ...
reality is what you make of it ... and from the time our eyes are opened and we are spanked by the DR.
we make reality our own .. we use our imaginations and our experiences and turn a pot of "rock soup" into a feast ...

oops i for got to mention YMMV

i just wish i could shoot the street like colin corneau. he does magic with his camera .. no backs of heads no photographs of butts for the peanut gallery to say "nice shot!" no homeless guy that he threw a $5 bill at
or guy passed out on a bag of trash with $ next to him ...

just humanity and life ...

Greetings jjnanian,
You are repeating the same point that I was making. Photography is quite different from drawing or painting, which I also practice, though for last couple of decades mostly carving marble. All of your alternatives involve changes in point of view, etc.,
but the dramatic positioning of the knurled, craggy trunk and branches is lost, not giving me what I want. Photography is just different from the other visual arts. The impact of a photograph is also different. These remarks were initiated by earlier comments in this thread regarding the truthfulness/untruthfulness of posed photographs masquerading as captured spontaneous incidents.

 

[removed account4]

hi guangong
im confused ..
when was photography ever about truthfulness ?
its always been about 1/2 truths and made up realities ... since 1839 ...

 

[Ko.Fe.]

i'm skittish when I take street shots so I try to grab them surreptitiously. In any case I think they're better that way as they're not posed. How would I have gotten shots like these by asking permission?
https://www.flickr.com/search/?sort=date-taken-desc&safe_search=1&tags=candid&user_id=55760757@N05&view_all=1

John Free (on YouTube) explained it several times what here is no reason to be skittish and act surreptitiously.
I recommend to watch him and listen.

I'm looking at my Flickr and I have mix. But I prefer then it is something like these:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kf095/31514115265
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kf095/31954031190
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kf095/36874643951

 

[mgb74]

I've had a couple of good street photographers tell me that you don't ask to "take a photo of you", you ask to "make a photo with you". The logic being that using the term "take" subliminally suggests the loss of something by the subject while using the term "make" suggests a joint, cooperative effort. I can't argue with the results they get.

You be the judge.

 

[blockend]

My rule is never opportunistically photograph people more vulnerable than yourself. A busy city street is fair game, a woman on a lonely river bank is not. Other adults are fine, children or people with disabilities aren't, unless you've asked. Being a PIA comes with the territory, behaving in a way that could be seen as threatening for the purposes of photography is not legitimate.

 

[bvy]

I've had a couple of good street photographers tell me that you don't ask to "take a photo of you", you ask to "make a photo with you". The logic being that using the term "take" subliminally suggests the loss of something by the subject while using the term "make" suggests a joint, cooperative effort. I can't argue with the results they get.

You be the judge.

I know who you're talking about and I've read his accounts, but when it comes to approaching people, I prefer plain speak. It's hard enough to make these encounters, and the idea that crafting some poetry into your opening question is the magic bullet behind acceptance and a great portrait is misleading. Your attitude, body language, how you dress, etc. will do more to put a person at ease (or unease) than approaching them with lyrics to a Bread song.

 

[jtk]

I agree that there are a few "good street photographers" .... but the evidence seems to be that there aren't many. It appears, commonly, that "street photography" is an excuse for unwillingness to engage with humanity. Very different from photojournalism.

 

[mgb74]

I know who you're talking about and I've read his accounts, but when it comes to approaching people, I prefer plain speak. It's hard enough to make these encounters, and the idea that crafting some poetry into your opening question is the magic bullet behind acceptance and a great portrait is misleading. Your attitude, body language, how you dress, etc. will do more to put a person at ease (or unease) than approaching them with lyrics to a Bread song.

Actually, I don't think you do know who I'm talking about as I'm talking about 2 local (Minnesota) photographers who don't have a national following.

Which doesn't mean that the person you're referring to doesn't do the same. Perhaps he/she described it as a magic bullet but I didn't and the photographers I referred to didn't describe it as a magic bullet either. Just something that helps.

 

[bvy]

Actually, I don't think you do know who I'm talking about as I'm talking about 2 local (Minnesota) photographers who don't have a national following.

Which doesn't mean that the person you're referring to doesn't do the same. Perhaps he/she described it as a magic bullet but I didn't and the photographers I referred to didn't describe it as a magic bullet either. Just something that helps.

Some photographer with a popular blog (can't find it offhand) discussed this approach at length, and the idea of telling someone you want to "make their portrait" versus "take their picture," which may or may not be where your locals got the inspiration. He did not describe it as a magic bullet (that's my phrase), but he did put a lot of weight on the words you choose. If that puts you at ease and your subject knows what you're talking about, then great. Personally it sounds ridiculous to me, so I obviously couldn't deliver such a question without feeling ridiculous. I just don't think people care if you ask to make, take or bake their picture; the execution looks and feels the same. Being comfortable and confident with what you're doing is more important than anything.

 

[jtk]

Being comfortable and confident with what you're doing is more important than anything.[/QUOTE]

Being respectful to your subject is more important than your "comfort" and "confidence."

 

[bvy]

Being respectful to your subject is more important than your "comfort" and "confidence."

Keep it in context. My point is if you feel awkward about it, no choice of words is going to overcome that. Obviously if you're asking first, you're being respectful.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I agree that there are a few "good street photographers" .... but the evidence seems to be that there aren't many. It appears, commonly, that "street photography" is an excuse for unwillingness to engage with humanity. Very different from photojournalism.

Where aren't many good photographers. In any photography. 99% of landscape photography taken with LF is gear and film exercise with lame results. Exposure is right, developing right, yet, no landscape. Same for portraits and else.
And good street photography often has nothing to do with PJ. Even if person is present and close.

 

[MattKing]

Your attitude, body language, how you dress, etc. will do more to put a person at ease (or unease) than approaching them with lyrics to a Bread song.

If someone approached me with lyrics to a Bread song, I'd be looking to run!
But the word choice can matter, because it can be a powerful indicator of attitude, which I agree is very important.

 

[Doc W]

I know it is sad, but I no longer take photographs of anyone I do not know. It is a different world out there now and people are paranoid and have vivid imaginations.

 

[slackercrurster]

Generally don't ask unless asking would make for a better pix. Every photo cannot be perfected as a candid. If so, you must get permission / cooperation to perfect the photo.

When I have asked in the past, many times permission has been denied, such as Jehovah's Witnesses on a corner at 6.30 AM, Mexican funeral party at cemetery, surfer with 10 surfboards on VW van roof, etc. So I try to shoot candid if possible. I also don't like talking to people which is bad when it comes to asking for permission. These photo ops mentioned here could not be produced in a manner that would lead to meaningful pix, so I had to let them go as permission was denied.

 

[jtk]

M

I've asked only a handful of times in my life. The first time I ever did was when I was in Vietnam (thanks Terry, for reminding me with your own lovely photo) - I came across this old man sitting on the bench and indicated with my camera if it was okay to take photos. He nodded yes and I managed to take about 3 or 4 - he posed in different ways! This is my favourite of the bunch, although unfortunately I missed focus because I was so nervous.

View attachment 163211

I used to work in a living history museum (in full costume) so ended up in hundreds, if not thousands of photos. I would stop and pose for the p&s tourists, but if I saw someone with a more serious camera I would ask if they wanted me to pose or to continue doing what I was doing. They didn't always want the unposed shot. Here's a self-portrait I took when I still worked there - I always loved the afternoon light in this building.
View attachment 163212

Now I'm part of a street photography group - I'm not sure why, as I am not a street photographer in any way - and now I struggle with this question - when to ask, and when to just shoot. There's another photographer in our group who often asks his subjects for photos, and he gets great candids from them. But I think he has the right personality to pull

Asking or not asking, this is the big question.
Two different methods that give very different results.
(A third option could be asking after the shot has been made.)

Generally speaking I prefer shots were the photographer isn't part of the scene. I vote "don't ask".

Left: Ask Right: Don't ask
View attachment 163245

Your photos make your case. You must be a real photographer !


it off - I sure don't!

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