Should yu approach a person and ask to take their photograph

[Luminousoctaves]

Some of Bressons best were just "snapshots".

 

[removed account4]

yup they were,
but a lot of the time when people
who aren't bresson, or tichý or maier
or winograd (who took wonderful snapshots as well)
take snapshots, the a lot of their street portraits are backs
of heads, coats, crowds ( with no central point )
or grab shots of homeless people passed out
on a park bench or alley ...
IDK to me at least, there is a difference ( maybe not ? )

 

[Jeff Bradford]

If the person is in the situation ?????

If there are people in a situation, asking is impossible. Eliminating the situation to ask for permission is self-defeating. Life does not have a PAUSE button.

 

[Luminousoctaves]

IDK to me at least, there is a difference ( maybe not ? )

There is a difference yes, and sure, you're right about most street snapshots not measuring up.
But that also goes for prepared/staged street portraits and scenes... there're a millon shots of fake smiles and awkward body language.

Personally I prefer the mystery of an authentic street situation before the staged portrait (though I'm not saying one method is universally better than the other.)

 

[removed account4]

If there are people in a situation, asking is impossible. Eliminating the situation to ask for permission is self-defeating. Life does not have a PAUSE button.

yeah good point ... impossiblities are limitless i agree ... but once in a while there IS a pause button ,, not too often though.

There is a difference yes, and sure, you're right about most street snapshots not measuring up.
But that also goes for prepared/staged street portraits and scenes... there're a millon shots of fake smiles and awkward body language.

Personally I prefer the mystery of an authentic street situation before the staged portrait (though I'm not saying one method is universally better than the other.)

there is a difference between a staged portrait, and making eye contact rather than contact betwen your head and their fist/your camera/their cane
and harsh words. there is a huge gap of possibilities because asking permission isn't necessarily walking up to someone and asking permission ...
and if it is, a photographer's dance happens, where he/she has a conversation and directs the situation and portrait so it isn't awkward and fake.

while i appreciate some street photography, i don't appreciate some of it as well ....

 

[Luminousoctaves]

while i appreciate some street photography, i don't appreciate some of it as well ....

That pretty much sums everything up I guess.
Can you give an example of a street portrait that you like?

This one by Bresson I really like. I assume he was in this scene himself in some way.
But it could also be just a passing snapshot (though I vaguely remember having seen more shots from the same scene).

 

[jeremy rundle]

And to serve as an example, the first photograph was taken by me during a visit to a local fisher's wharf (Steveston). The boat, the scene and the woman appeared both generally and photographically interesting to me, I struck up a conversation with the woman and I asked if she was okay with my photographing her. You can see the result.

I haven't shot much candid work recently, and have digitized even less, but the second photograph is an example of a shot taken while the subject knew I was there photographing, but not that I was photographing him. He is on APUG - I wonder if he will recognize it.View attachment 163229 View attachment 163230

DO people really still use large format, why

 

[removed account4]

That pretty much sums everything up I guess.
Can you give an example of a street portrait that you like?

im thinking the boy with the baguette, the woman walking down the street with people gawking at her
the kiss and the one after ww2 ended ...the portraits atget took, something that is more about life or human condition
and has a design element to it ( shadows, line, architecture, composition, something interesting? ).
i guess i am kind of bored with the grab-shots often confused and praised along with street photography ...
i'm searching for the ones i am talking about, but really am having a hard time digging them up, sorry ...

 

[Luminousoctaves]

Interesting read. Atget was a genius I agree.
And from a certain perspective: a good photograph is a good photograph, regardless of which method used taking it.

I do see what you mean with grab-shots and lack of design elements. But I actually think all of the qualities you listed above can also be found in photographs taken without direction from the photographer. They are just a little more tricky to conceive. Bresson was a master in doing this. But also, look at the photography from Alex Webb. He lingers around a "scene" for long periods of time, waiting for the right moment. As far as I know, he rarely directs his shots.

To me one of the most desirable qualities of documentary photography is to be able to see and describe the world as it is, without interfering with it too much.
I was very surprised when I found out that The Kiss by Robert Doisneau is staged.
Does the fact that it's a staged situation influence my appreciation of it? Honestly, yes.

 

[cliveh]

I didn't ask.

 

[MattKing]

DO people really still use large format, why

That's a whole subject in itself.

Large format is quite healthy actually. Lots of people here on APUG shoot it, and it is one area where there is arguably growth in film use. There are a fair number of people manufacturing new cameras, and there is a robust market for used lenses.

The interest in traditional processes is quite robust, and that requires the ability to contact print (in most cases).

The photographer in my shot was using a new meniscus lens bought by him from someone who sells and participates on APUG.

 

[dpurdy]

I severely hate being photographed, even in family photos, and I always say "No" and turn away if some stranger starts to photograph me. For that reason and others I always make sure it is ok.. which can be a simple as pointing at a person and then pointing at your camera with a questioning look on your face.

 

[MartinCrabtree]

Unless I'm attempting a portrait I do not ask. It's my version of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. If I interfere it's just not the same.

​

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

And to serve as an example, the first photograph was taken by me during a visit to a local fisher's wharf (Steveston). The boat, the scene and the woman appeared both generally and photographically interesting to me, I struck up a conversation with the woman and I asked if she was okay with my photographing her. You can see the result.

I haven't shot much candid work recently, and have digitized even less, but the second photograph is an example of a shot taken while the subject knew I was there photographing, but not that I was photographing him. He is on APUG - I wonder if he will recognize it.View attachment 163229 View attachment 163230

Hey, I have that same photo of some guy with his head in the back of a camera!

 

[MattKing]

Hey, I have that same photo of some guy with his head in the back of a camera!

Clearly he must get around. I've heard he has been seen as far east as Saskatchewan, and as far west as Japan.

 

[benjiboy]

That pretty much sums everything up I guess.
Can you give an example of a street portrait that you like?

This one by Bresson I really like. I assume he was in this scene himself in some way.
But it could also be just a passing snapshot (though I vaguely remember having seen more shots from the same scene).

I know this series of shots they were Spanish prostitutes.plying their trade, not shrinking violets.

 

[Dali]

I am pretty open with street photography practice (ask or not ask permission) but IMO Bruce Gilden goes beyond what is acceptable, a real jerk.

 

[marcmarc]

I do both, it just depends on numerous factors.

 

[Luminousoctaves]

I am pretty open with street photography practice (ask or not ask permission) but IMO Bruce Gilden goes beyond what is acceptable, a real jerk.

I respect that, but personally I wouldn't want to be without Gildens 5th avenue snapshots. They are simply too fascinating and unique. Also, his extensive work on Haiti (and poor americans) tell me there is more to Gilden than just a crazy new yorker with a flash gun.

But ok, one Bruce Gilden is enough, we don't need hundreds of them running up and down the streets.

 

[bluechromis]

Some posters have used this terminology of "snapshot" with respect to un-posed images. I don't know exactly what they meant by that. But often the word snapshot has an unsavory connotation of images that were created carelessly, with limited intention such as unskilled person that uses phone to grab quick and easy pics of friends at party to post on social media. It seems misleading to apply this description to the skilled practitioners of photographing spontaneous scenes of life on streets and other places. Often a considerable mental forethought has gone into making such shots such as thinking where to stand so that as people go there not will a distracting background. There may comparison to the jazz musicians to classical musicians. Jazz musicians make spontaneous improvisations that might seem to classical musicians like undisciplined and careless adventures, but actually require a great deal of practice and skill to perform well. There is evidence that the the brains of Jazz musicians operate directly than those classical musicians with jazz musicians being highly attuned to perceiving how something unexpected in performance could lead opportunities for new forms of expression. There may be something similar to this with street photographers and others that shoot dynamic social events. Great musicians sometimes create impression that because their improvisations seems flow so free and easy that it might easy to produce then, when it is opposite that is case because they both performing and composing at the same time. It may be the same street photographers that because they are seeming to same level elaborate scene preparation as, for example, a studio photographer with controlled lighting etc. that it has less intent or focus or requiring less skill..


https://psmag.com/news/there-are-no-wrong-notes
https://psmag.com/news/there-are-no-wrong-notes
The description of Garry Winograd quickly discerning the potential for a special image in a fast moving setting may speak to how the process used by skilled street photography may represent more than is suggested by the word snaps:

http://journals.openedition.org/transatlantica/7084

 

[wiltw]

The answer, I believe, is highly rooted on the cultural context of the person being photographed!

• Some cultures are highly sensitized to having photos taken, some are not
• Interestingly, in the western world it seems that now folks are on security cameras all the time when on the street, yet they often feel highly intruded upon when someone wants a candid...go figure!

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I am pretty open with street photography practice (ask or not ask permission) but IMO Bruce Gilden goes beyond what is acceptable, a real jerk.

I was exactly in the same opinion, until I actually looked at his work. He does talk to people before it is taken as the portraits. And his portraits explained me something I was not able to understand.

 

[blockend]

Some posters have used this terminology of "snapshot" with respect to un-posed images. I don't know exactly what they meant by that. But often the word snapshot has an unsavory connotation of images that were created carelessly, with limited intention such as unskilled person that uses phone to grab quick and easy pics of friends at party to post on social media.

As Garry Winogrand noted, what many people call snapshots are posed portraits, some of the least casual photographs ever made. The word is used as a pejorative, a put down, but is basically meaningless. Most photographs are "snaps" of a fraction of a second, so duration doesn't define snapshot. Diane Arbus shot people straight on, but few people would describe her work as snapshots, so it isn't about where people sit in the frame. It isn't about casual angles or skewed horizons, because street photographers often use the subject as a vertical, not their environment. What came to be known as the "snapshot aesthetic" was a misnomer for a self conscious candid viewpoint using hand held cameras. It's difficult to imagine a genre further from the family snapshot.

 

[jjphoto]

I photograph strangers all the time. I usually ask first if there is time but there's nothing wrong with grabbing moments before they're gone. You can always ask later.

 

[blockend]

But also, look at the photography from Alex Webb.

The Webb shot and the Doisneau photograph convince because they are technically flawed, and the flaws lend them a feeling of truthfulness. The Alex Webb image is like a staged tableau, but it isn't especially sharp, which makes us believe it more. Cartier-Bresson's work is similar. I don't know that Webb didn't stage it, but it feels like he didn't. What the difference is between arranging people in a frame, taking a couple of rolls of the same subject, choosing the best, and actually telling them where to stand, is a moot point. The Doisneau looks authentic for the same reason, blurred people move around the subject as they would for a candid grab shot, but history tells us it's a set up.

Nowadays, because people have sharp lenses and high ISO digital cameras that give front to back sharpness, photos often look fake even when they are not. When people accuse photos of not being sharp they generally mean it doesn't look like a calendar or studio shot. Landscapes are so sharp now I disbelieve them to be a representation of what's there until proven otherwise. HCB was using 100 ASA film in his early days, and looks to be shooting at f4-f5.6 at 1/50-1/100 a lot of the time. That demands a certain formality in the subject matter.