Should we use expired film or is it garbage ?

[mshchem]

Kodak should trade back, 4 for 1. Biggest competition is places like my refrigerator, not the one in my kitchen, but my freestanding 20 cu ft refrigerator freezer dedicated to film and paper.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I have a lot of expired film I bought fresh. A savvy investor I'm not!

I have a lot of expired food I bought fresh.

 

[Cholentpot]

I would like to add, if anyone here at all has expired film of any kind that they'd rather just throw away. Send it to me and I'll dispose of it for you.

 

[purestmaiden]

I found expired film to be helpful when I was just retuning to shooting film- I got a really good deal on a few recently expired rolls from a reputable shop, and it helped me to get a feel for my camera's settings without worrying too much about the cost of messing up a shot!

But recently, I've found that expired film seems to be climbing in price... I've seen some rolls of expired Gold 200 on auction sites that cost double the price of a fresh roll! Given the fact that I can't always guarantee expired film has been carefully stored, I tend to steer clear these days unless I find a particularly good deal on a low-ISO black and white film, or can pick up something on a short date sale from a retailer.

 

[Polov]

USE LOW ISO TO TRY

 

[mshchem]

I would like to add, if anyone here at all has expired film of any kind that they'd rather just throw away. Send it to me and I'll dispose of it for you.

One needs to shoot and process color films to remove the silver. Otherwise it's toxic waste loaded with heavy metal, Silver! You should offer, at a price, to help fellow forum members dispose of their expired film.

 

[Cholentpot]

One needs to shoot and process color films to remove the silver. Otherwise it's toxic waste loaded with heavy metal, Silver! You should offer, at a price, to help fellow forum members dispose of their expired film.

Sure. Silver is way up. I'll even send back the used fixer.

 

[mshchem]

Sure. Silver is way up. I'll even send back the used fixer.

Perfect!

 

[Agulliver]

I did buy bricks of expired film in the late 2000s when people were practically giving film away. My parents had (mum still has) a ridiculously large freezer and I stored bricks of Foma 800, Kodak Tri-X and Ilford HP5+ in there for some years. I probably used the last in 2015? By which time some of it was 20 years expired. I can't say any of it performed significantly different to how it was when new.

A friend recently cleared out his late mother's house and handed me a roll of TMAX 400 and another of Gold 200. Both are 21st century but could easily be 15 years expired. Both stored cool-ish conditions and in the dark. I shall use the TMAX 400 at box speed and pass the Gold onto someone who likes experimenting with funky colours....on the grounds that it might exhibit colour shifts. It is certainly not garbage. This same person has some very early experimental Kodak Ektachrome E6 - labelled as such - from the early 1970s before E6 was introduced to the public. As well as being a curiosity and possibly a collectors item, she does intend to shoot it.

 

[Cholentpot]

I did buy bricks of expired film in the late 2000s when people were practically giving film away. My parents had (mum still has) a ridiculously large freezer and I stored bricks of Foma 800, Kodak Tri-X and Ilford HP5+ in there for some years. I probably used the last in 2015? By which time some of it was 20 years expired. I can't say any of it performed significantly different to how it was when new.

A friend recently cleared out his late mother's house and handed me a roll of TMAX 400 and another of Gold 200. Both are 21st century but could easily be 15 years expired. Both stored cool-ish conditions and in the dark. I shall use the TMAX 400 at box speed and pass the Gold onto someone who likes experimenting with funky colours....on the grounds that it might exhibit colour shifts. It is certainly not garbage. This same person has some very early experimental Kodak Ektachrome E6 - labelled as such - from the early 1970s before E6 was introduced to the public. As well as being a curiosity and possibly a collectors item, she does intend to shoot it.

I've learned not to shoot undocumented well aged E-6. It doesn't hold up like C-41 or B&W and you can't over expose to make up for the age.

Ektachrome 64. Didn't age well.

 

[gbroadbridge]

Ektachrome 64. Didn't age well.

Cyanochrome.

 

[loccdor]

Ektachrome 64. Didn't age well.

Kodak color films in general don't.

 

[Cholentpot]

Cyanochrome.

Huh. I should lean into that...

 

[gbroadbridge]

Huh. I should lean into that...

It's not a bug, it's a feature

 

[Taylor K Nankervis]

I've learned not to shoot undocumented well aged E-6. It doesn't hold up like C-41 or B&W and you can't over expose to make up for the age.

Ektachrome 64. Didn't age well.

Yuck.
I stopped Ektachrome 64 and 100 use in the mid-1980s and switched to Kodachrome (200) — the start, as it was, of a long love affair with that particular film, and one holding vital revelations when it came to differences in how colours were reproduced when printing to the Ilfochrome Classic / Ciba process.
My late aunties used Ektachrome in the 1960s and 70s (run through Minolta SRT 101b cameras, one of which was gifted to me in October 1977 when I began my photography journey) on their globe-trotting travels; of those card-mounted slides that still exist, they look very similar to the above — the colour has faded and shifted, detail is lost and an overall mugginess pervades the scenes. Snaps of Trooping the Colour in the 60s are especially pitiful now with the bright reds and general palette now mushy brown or pretty much faded to nothing.

This is a very stark, telling comparison of films. My own Kodachrome slides from 40+ years back are still in beautiful condition in folder sleeves — I fancied photographing the bright red MG minis of the day with their sparkling chromework, and I still marvel at how Kodachrome holds these dearly and tightly in the march of time.

Very cold, dry storage (dry freeze, —18°c) will keep Fuji's and Kodak's E6; presently running to 3 to 5 years past expiry, and something I am not troubled by. These films are brought out a full day before intended use. There are two rolls of Ilford's Pan F+ 50; 1 x 35mm and 1 x 120; expiry from 2017 and 2020 so... hmm, not sure if I would commit a serious project to his, but might consider it for pinhole work.

 

[Agulliver]

Oh I am absolutely sure that when she shoots the 1973 experimental E6 Ektachrome it is going to be an absolute mess. THat's what she is looking for. It's not "my thing" but who am I to deny another's joy?

 

[loccdor]

From what I saw from years of expired film experiments, Fuji started pulling ahead of Kodak in the longevity in most of its color films around the mid 90-s to 2000. Could just be my luck but after trying about 50 different batches, I think there's something to it. I won't shoot Kodak color film past the 10 year mark, it's just too degraded.

 

[dpurdy]

Obviously using expired film and buying expired film is two different concerns. I use nothing but expired film, but I bought it all in bulk before it expired and it is all stored well below 0º F. 35mm 4x5 120 8x10, I have all formats and trust them. However I would not buy expired film because I wouldn't know it's history.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

If you need consistency in what you're shooting, don't shoot expired film. Almost any "look" you can get from expired film, you can impose on fresh film through chemical (or digital after the fact) chicanery. But the challenge with expired film is that it is entirely inconsistent because you have no control over storage and handling once it has left the shop. And if you get a particular look from one roll, there's no guarantee you can repeat it with the next one. So for that reason I tend to avoid expired film.

 

[Cholentpot]

If you need consistency in what you're shooting, don't shoot expired film. Almost any "look" you can get from expired film, you can impose on fresh film through chemical (or digital after the fact) chicanery. But the challenge with expired film is that it is entirely inconsistent because you have no control over storage and handling once it has left the shop. And if you get a particular look from one roll, there's no guarantee you can repeat it with the next one. So for that reason I tend to avoid expired film.

Lets be really really honest here. When I want 100% consistency every single time I shoot digital. And I'm not bringing the debate in here. It's just for my vision I shoot film specifically for the varied results that I'll get from it, even when fresh and sent off to the lab. There's always going to be some surprise with film. And that's the exact reason why I use it. So expired film doesn't phase me.

Now, I would never use expired untested film on paid work unless the client specifically asks to get that surprise look and even then I would kick in the iffy roll along with fresh or tested film. For stuff that pays my bills it's either digital or fresh film. No way I'd roll up to a shoot with Kodak 800 from 1998. Shooting my own stuff or my artistic vision? Slap that stuff in the F2 that has an untested shutter and no meter. By all means. I cut my teeth on an unopened warehouse box of cameras with included Gold 200 12 exposures. Must have had 50+ rolls of that to play with. It was awful but I learned many things I would not have tried otherwise. Like taping rolls together to get two to fit on one reel. I learned to home develop and scan on the trash. I also learned how to and not to use the stuff. If its an iffy roll don't let it sit around in the camera. Blast that roll away ASAP that was if it was really no good you didn't lose a weeks full of photos.

 

[Molte]

On a recent 3-week trip to Northern Japan, I travelled with three 'systems', one of which was a Rollei 35s with 11 rolls of TriX from my freezer. They were from 2015. I purchased more TriX in Japan. Having developed everything, all of my 10-year old Trix has a much higher level of BF than the fresh film that I bought in Japan. I thought that film can be 'suspended' in time in the freezer, but apparently not. Now I will have to test all the other film in my freezer. And I will stick to fresh film in the future. Life is too short. Fotoimpex sends it to me without much time-lag and I will stick to the films that they always have in stock. My second 'system' was a Holga with fresh HP5+. This worked fine. My first 'system' was a Sony a7Rii and this worked fine. I forget the iPhone, which I guess was my fourth 'system'. Everything fit into/was attached to a small 4 liter sling (and the iPhone) in my pocket. My travelling companions didn't suffer too much waiting for me when I was recording our environment. And we didn't encounter any bears. Fortunately. And airport personnel in Copenhagen, Tokyo and Sapporo were very kind and understanding about not frying my film in their scanners. I assume that film gets a little FB exposure at 11km flying altitude for 13 hours, but not like my TriX from the freezer.

 

[stevenje]

For some photographers it isn't about saving money its about availability.
If they still made Polaroid or Fuji 4x5 instant film I would buy it, but they don't.
The same goes for Kodak HIE infrared film.

 

[Cholentpot]

On a recent 3-week trip to Northern Japan, I travelled with three 'systems', one of which was a Rollei 35s with 11 rolls of TriX from my freezer. They were from 2015. I purchased more TriX in Japan. Having developed everything, all of my 10-year old Trix has a much higher level of BF than the fresh film that I bought in Japan. I thought that film can be 'suspended' in time in the freezer, but apparently not. Now I will have to test all the other film in my freezer. And I will stick to fresh film in the future. Life is too short. Fotoimpex sends it to me without much time-lag and I will stick to the films that they always have in stock. My second 'system' was a Holga with fresh HP5+. This worked fine. My first 'system' was a Sony a7Rii and this worked fine. I forget the iPhone, which I guess was my fourth 'system'. Everything fit into/was attached to a small 4 liter sling (and the iPhone) in my pocket. My travelling companions didn't suffer too much waiting for me when I was recording our environment. And we didn't encounter any bears. Fortunately. And airport personnel in Copenhagen, Tokyo and Sapporo were very kind and understanding about not frying my film in their scanners. I assume that film gets a little FB exposure at 11km flying altitude for 13 hours, but not like my TriX from the freezer.

How degraded was the old Tri-X by stops? If you'd give a bit more exposure would it be fine?

 

[Agulliver]

I am *very* surprised to hear that frozen Tri-X was a problem just 10 years old.

I know I am not alone in having shot Tri-X which hasn't even been kept cool and which was 25 or more years expired with great results.

Even the newer formulation seems to age quite well....as B&W film tends to.

 

[thinkbrown]

I purchased 40 rolls of TMax 100 from another user here that expired in 2013 and had been frozen the entire time. To my eye there's no difference between it and the 2025 rolls I shot prior.