Should I buy an F5?

MartinCrabtree · Aug 25, 2021

It's not always about numbers. IMHO the F5 is a joy to use once you figure out (it does take some time) the controls. I've had mine about 10 years with no problems. It doesn't eat batteries as fast as people who don't own one would lead you to believe. It accepts many Nikon lenses and the auto focus rivals many newer cameras. You have to use one to understand what a great tool it is. I picked mine up here and it was perfect to the point of still having the plugs in the 10 pin and PC ports. And a very generous APUG (yeah...) member gave me the MF-28 back which has been flawless. The size and heft don't bother me and I've carried it around a mountainous motocross track many times.

Christiaan Phleger · Aug 25, 2021

Love that pic! I'm used to seeing the bright/sunny surfing shots. That moodiness and grain is so good!

Thank you and as we say in Hawaii, Mahalo. I'm a lifelong surfer as well as a long time pro shooter, but my personal vision of shooting surf is quite different than most including other pro's. That shot was in the very early pre-dawn light before the big Pipe Masters surf contest, and free surfers and the pro's get out to the break basically in the dark. On those contest days I prefer to get to the beach in the dark as well (parking is an issue) and get a spot that I like for the whole day. It can basically be an NFL or NBA game on the beach but no stands or stadium (ha and no pesky press credentials yah) so its first come-best angle. Pretty much nobody else even sets up a tripod until just before the contest starts but I've learned to start to read the ocean conditions as early as possible and sometimes there is a stellar wave ridden. I can't seem to identify the surfer in the shot but it was big enough to catch my attention to catch the quick moment of the drop as he fell into it. I used a Nikkor 400mm 2.8 wide open probably around 1/125 or 1/60 (those in between shutter speeds of the F5 come in handy right here) and I'm fairly sure that year the film/developer combo was Kodak P3200 at 6400 in Xtol, could have been replenished. So yeah; dark, moody, spooky just like the waves that morning.

I extend an open invitation to any interested APUGer's who come to Oahu Hawaii to hit me up and I can give advice for shooting surf, conditions and such. I may also join for a roll or two as well! With Aloha, Chris/RidingWaves

Huss · Aug 25, 2021

Thanks for all that detail Chris! You find pushing P3200 to 6400 is better than pushing HP5 to 6400? P3200 natively is about ISO 800 from my experience.

Horatio · Aug 25, 2021

faberryman said:
I guess I would ask why you want to buy an F5 in the first place. Does it do something your current camera does not?

Well, if I'm collecting Nikons, why not?

CMoore · Aug 25, 2021

Horatio said:
Well, if I'm collecting Nikons, why not?

I realize they are more money.....a lot more.?..... but would there be any wisdom in skipping the F5 and buying the F6.?

Horatio · Aug 25, 2021

CMoore said:
I realize they are more money.....a lot more.?..... but would there be any wisdom in skipping the F5 and buying the F6.?

I'd love to have an F6. I'm just not ready to drop $1k+ to get one. I've seen F5s recently for under $300.

Christiaan Phleger · Aug 25, 2021

Sure you can't shut me up about this stuff ha. This was perhaps the first couple of rolls of the Re-issued P3200 so I wanted to shoot it specifically in this situation. I used to use between 4-12 rolls a week of P3200 in my pre-digital newspaper sports days so I had a good grasp on this particular emulsion. The grain is fat of course..Most of the time for this type of shooting the amount of light is not an issue so I tend to shoot ISO 400 T-grains often (helps hold detail in the occasional high density, which is why I shy from 'pushing' if I have to) Delta or mostly TMax 400 but I always bring and shoot Tmax 100 or an old roll of Plus-X or AGFA APX 100 for when the mid-day light starts to really blaze. Recall that in those old Kodak film box guides the brightest situation listed was white beaches in mid day; closer to Sunny 22 or 32 in some cases. The potential for extreme light levels with large areas of moving high reflections is one reason that most metering systems tend to show inconsistency, That ancient Ken Rockwell nugget of wisdom of the Nikon Matrix Metering cutoff at EV 16 2/3 comes into play here, and staying on thread topic, using the spot meter of the F5 to get a reading is the way to go. I use the F3P+MD4 and the F4s as well for surf, and side by side you can see the viewfinder and screen brightness and contrast differences between all three. F5 is the dimmest (again not any help by the inability for the F5 to turn off the interior viewfinder light) with the F4 the 'brightest' but the F3 has the better balance of contrast and brightness, the F4 seems just a bit less contrast. I have extensively used the very useful screen changes, and for the longer glass I use for this surf photography I have B, J, U, and the H series screens and swap them as the day calls. Some body/screen combos work better or worse with teleconverters. My primary surf lens over the years has been the Ai-s 400mm 2.8 but for the Pipeline zone of the North Shore of Oahu the action can be shockingly close and you often don't need as much reach as you might think. That being said this summer a close buddy offered me his 600 Nikkor for a 'can't refuse' price so I am looking forward to shooting that optic this winter since I often leave the TC-14b mounted on the 400.

Christiaan Phleger · Aug 25, 2021

Oh and as an aside, yes the ISO of P3200 is natively 800 but I find at that E.I. the images to be too flat, E.I. 1600 is usually the lowest I'd shoot with this film I mostly shoot 3200 or 6400.

Horatio · Aug 25, 2021

Is this a serious problem?

Huss · Aug 25, 2021

RidingWaves said:
Sure you can't shut me up about this stuff ha. This was perhaps the first couple of rolls of the Re-issued P3200 so I wanted to shoot it specifically in this situation. I used to use between 4-12 rolls a week of P3200 in my pre-digital newspaper sports days so I had a good grasp on this particular emulsion. The grain is fat of course..Most of the time for this type of shooting the amount of light is not an issue so I tend to shoot ISO 400 T-grains often (helps hold detail in the occasional high density, which is why I shy from 'pushing' if I have to) Delta or mostly TMax 400 but I always bring and shoot Tmax 100 or an old roll of Plus-X or AGFA APX 100 for when the mid-day light starts to really blaze. Recall that in those old Kodak film box guides the brightest situation listed was white beaches in mid day; closer to Sunny 22 or 32 in some cases. The potential for extreme light levels with large areas of moving high reflections is one reason that most metering systems tend to show inconsistency, That ancient Ken Rockwell nugget of wisdom of the Nikon Matrix Metering cutoff at EV 16 2/3 comes into play here, and staying on thread topic, using the spot meter of the F5 to get a reading is the way to go. I use the F3P+MD4 and the F4s as well for surf, and side by side you can see the viewfinder and screen brightness and contrast differences between all three. F5 is the dimmest (again not any help by the inability for the F5 to turn off the interior viewfinder light) with the F4 the 'brightest' but the F3 has the better balance of contrast and brightness, the F4 seems just a bit less contrast. I have extensively used the very useful screen changes, and for the longer glass I use for this surf photography I have B, J, U, and the H series screens and swap them as the day calls. Some body/screen combos work better or worse with teleconverters. My primary surf lens over the years has been the Ai-s 400mm 2.8 but for the Pipeline zone of the North Shore of Oahu the action can be shockingly close and you often don't need as much reach as you might think. That being said this summer a close buddy offered me his 600 Nikkor for a 'can't refuse' price so I am looking forward to shooting that optic this winter since I often leave the TC-14b mounted on the 400.

Love this info! I guess I just didn't think if you had AF you'd need to change screens during the day.

Huss · Aug 25, 2021

Horatio said:
View attachment 283630
Is this a serious problem?

Doesn't look good to me...
this one looks nice - just passing it on, no connection to the seller:
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1714361/0?keyword=nikon,f5#15681653

CMoore · Aug 25, 2021

RidingWaves said:
Sure you can't shut me up about this stuff ha. This was perhaps the first couple of rolls of the Re-issued P3200 so I wanted to shoot it specifically in this situation. I used to use between 4-12 rolls a week of P3200 in my pre-digital newspaper sports days so I had a good grasp on this particular emulsion. The grain is fat of course..Most of the time for this type of shooting the amount of light is not an issue so I tend to shoot ISO 400 T-grains often (helps hold detail in the occasional high density, which is why I shy from 'pushing' if I have to) Delta or mostly TMax 400 but I always bring and shoot Tmax 100 or an old roll of Plus-X or AGFA APX 100 for when the mid-day light starts to really blaze. Recall that in those old Kodak film box guides the brightest situation listed was white beaches in mid day; closer to Sunny 22 or 32 in some cases. The potential for extreme light levels with large areas of moving high reflections is one reason that most metering systems tend to show inconsistency, That ancient Ken Rockwell nugget of wisdom of the Nikon Matrix Metering cutoff at EV 16 2/3 comes into play here, and staying on thread topic, using the spot meter of the F5 to get a reading is the way to go. I use the F3P+MD4 and the F4s as well for surf, and side by side you can see the viewfinder and screen brightness and contrast differences between all three. F5 is the dimmest (again not any help by the inability for the F5 to turn off the interior viewfinder light) with the F4 the 'brightest' but the F3 has the better balance of contrast and brightness, the F4 seems just a bit less contrast. I have extensively used the very useful screen changes, and for the longer glass I use for this surf photography I have B, J, U, and the H series screens and swap them as the day calls. Some body/screen combos work better or worse with teleconverters. My primary surf lens over the years has been the Ai-s 400mm 2.8 but for the Pipeline zone of the North Shore of Oahu the action can be shockingly close and you often don't need as much reach as you might think. That being said this summer a close buddy offered me his 600 Nikkor for a 'can't refuse' price so I am looking forward to shooting that optic this winter since I often leave the TC-14b mounted on the 400.

I am not a surfer, so pardon the ignorance, but is this common in surfing.?
If somebody goes left at Jaws, do they call the place Domes all of a sudden.?

Again, i am not a surfer, but watching Pipe, on television in the 1970's, i do not hardly remember guys going right at Pipeline. Isn't it kind of even more shallow (if that is possible) in that direction.?
Thank You

BTW. interesting info on 3200. thank you

MartinCrabtree · Aug 25, 2021

Horatio said:
View attachment 283630
Is this a serious problem?

Not for me. What makes you concerned about the battery tray?

dmtnkl · Aug 25, 2021

CMoore said:
I realize they are more money.....a lot more.?..... but would there be any wisdom in skipping the F5 and buying the F6.?

The most obvious reason is matrix metering with manual focus lenses. It works very well, so this is a feature that could be of great utility if you like using vintage nikon glass.

Its AF system is also noteworthy. Not only regarding coverage, accuracy and speed, but also flexibility. In general, i do not always like AF as i think it limits the way i choose where to focus. With a good focusing screen and manual focus, i can focus anywhere i want in the frame. However, F6's 'group autofocus' is starting to make me reevaluate my opinion. AF Sensors can be grouped in a cross pattern, or a linear pattern that can be switched between vertical/horizontal orientation with a push of the joypad. The latter feature is very useful and once you get the hang of it, you can quickly and efficiently narrow down the area of the frame where you would like to focus.

If you look into the specs and read some reviews, i am sure you will find even more reasons to get an F6 over an F5. The F5 is still a great system though, and I will also get one when the time is right

Horatio · Aug 25, 2021

MartinCrabtree said:
Not for me. What makes you concerned about the battery tray?

The seller is listing broken contacts in the tray, for one thing. Poor fit also suggests possible damage. The cosmetics don’t bother me as long as it’s reliable.

Horatio · Aug 25, 2021

Huss said:
To the OP, as others have said, just get one. Don't like it, sell it on. Life's too short...

Agreed, and that sentiment has fueled my GAS for the past year!

MartinCrabtree · Aug 26, 2021

Horatio said:
The seller is listing broken contacts in the tray, for one thing. Poor fit also suggests possible damage. The cosmetics don’t bother me as long as it’s reliable.

Look elsewhere. Too easy to buy a operational unit than screw with one that's questionable.

Craig75 · Aug 26, 2021

Exceptional surf photo. Really moody and atmospheric.

Huss · Aug 27, 2021

Horatio said:
The seller is listing broken contacts in the tray, for one thing. Poor fit also suggests possible damage. The cosmetics don’t bother me as long as it’s reliable.

Dood, skip this one for sure. That camera took a big impact. There are plenty of good F5s out there to not have to deal with this.

Huss · Aug 27, 2021

CMoore said:
I am not a surfer, so pardon the ignorance, but is this common in surfing.?
If somebody goes left at Jaws, do they call the place Domes all of a sudden.?

Again, i am not a surfer, but watching Pipe, on television in the 1970's, i do not hardly remember guys going right at Pipeline. Isn't it kind of even more shallow (if that is possible) in that direction.?
Thank You

BTW. interesting info on 3200. thank you

Digressing. Or going off on a tangent. Either, but it's all RidingWaves' fault!... I loved the movie "Step into the Liquid"

Horatio · Aug 27, 2021

Huss said:
Dood, skip this one for sure. That camera took a big impact. There are plenty of good F5s out there to not have to deal with this.

Yeah. I'm gonna pass on that one.

Christiaan Phleger · Aug 27, 2021

Thank you very much. When I had my darkroom I would produce prints on toned Ilford WT FB, I've not found a 'hybrid' print that I like so my surf prints are awaiting the next darkroom.

Staying OT, the Nikon F5 MS-30 Battery Tray is the clear weak point, and you can tell these cameras were battery eaters (in particular with the AF-I and V.1 AF-S) since on well used cameras like mine the tray shows heaps of wear. The locking mechanism on mine is loose and the contacts could always be cleaner, I'll do some work on it prior to this seasons shooting. I did manage to find a set of MN-30 with charger but they only last a roll or two and need to be rebuilt, as it is now I just use Energizer Lithium AA's and the weight savings is worth the cost. Alkaline or Ni-MH AA's make the F5 much heavier. A 3rd party solution for replacement MS-30's would be ideal, maybe a 3D printed version.

Christiaan Phleger · Aug 27, 2021

As for the questions on surf, yes the performance of surfing took a large leap in the early to mid 1980's; the construction of the boards got better from a combination of a clearer understanding of the complex curves and the rise of more accurate shaping of the boards allowing refinement in smaller increments, and these improvements allowed surfers to continue to push into more dynamic parts of the wave (and into the air!). You are correct in that the wave Pipeline or Pipe is predominantly a left, which is while pointed towards the beach as the wave approaches the surfer starts the ride going left (opposite of what is seen from the shore). The 'right' or the other direction on the same wave is known as the Backdoor or Backdoor Pipe. The left or Pipe wave ends into a relatively mellow channel or space where the waves don't break as much, but the end or exit area for the right or Backdoor is not really an exit, it mostly just collapses right on coral reef in about 2 feet/.5M of water. Highly dangerous (both directions) but in a contest setting it can make for very dramatic moments as the wave seems to crush the surfer yet they can exit the tubing wave to the screams and cheers of the crowd, who are close enough for the surfer to hear. (you can also hear the sound of the impact of the wave crushing boards and bodies too). As I mentioned before this stretch of reef makes the waves break incredibly close to the shoreline so viewing and shooting is much much closer (and very intimate!) than what most would expect, in most parts of this planet waves of this size, power and explosiveness break much further off the shore, making viewing and shooting a much different challenge.

Staying a bit OT, these hard breaking waves make a tremendous amount of salt spray, and Hawaii is blessed with consistent Tradewinds that not only help the waves stand up more hollow but also help clear the air between waves so it is possible to shoot with the long tele's with a minimal amount of atmospheric haze. But it does make a very salty beach, and the Nikon F5's superior weather sealing really helps, especially when those Tradewinds bring along passing showers.

Horatio · Aug 28, 2021

@RidingWaves, thanks for the insights. I can see where the F5 would be a good choice for sports or action photography. Perhaps owning one will pay off when my grandkids are old enough for sports.

film_man · Aug 29, 2021

I have an F5. Only bought that vs the F100 (used to own a F100 years ago by the way) because that F5 was mint and cheap (£350) plus all the broken door issues with the F100.

To be honest the only reason I have a Nikon AF camera is because of the 58/1.4G. I prefer the ergonomics and smaller size/weight of the EOS 1N/1V. But in any case, the F5 is an amazingly capable camera, it is very responsive and basically does whatever you need to do. The only 3 things I disliked about it is that the AE lock button is not in a good position for my thumb, the weight/size and the fact that the AF points in the finder are not illuminated, ie they are very hard to see in the dark. Apart from that...perfect.

Should I buy an F5?

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