Sharpest 120 Folder?

Prest_400 said:

For the purpose of temporarily compliment I know someone who might lend me a Super Isolette, and of course, in the auction sites one sooner than later starts to look into the Super Ikontas and exotic machines together with knowing the usual caveats of vintage cameras. I do feel I should have gotten a Perkeo with Color skopar earlier for such purpose.
-> For an expedition indeed the interest is to have the best possible quality, but for fun I would say the Nettars and equivalents are fantastic. Holgas aren't that well performing nor cheap anymore!

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Prices for the Super Isolette are, unfortunately, so inflated (500€ minimum), they are probably not worth it anymore. And while I haven't owned the Super Ikonta 532/533, at well over 1 kg I can't help but feel that I might as well carry a TLR.

That being said, if you can find a local German seller (kleinanzeigen.de) willing to ship outside of Germany, that's probably your best bet for a Super Ikonta III with a Tessar at a reasonable price, i.e. under 200€.

henryvk said:

Prices for the Super Isolette are, unfortunately, so inflated (500€ minimum), they are probably not worth it anymore. And while I haven't owned the Super Ikonta 532/533, at well over 1 kg I can't help but feel that I might as well carry a TLR.

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Absolutely. They have their own set of problems and the lens is not better than any other good Tessar.
Close focus, which should be one of the selling points of unit focus, is not too impressive either at 100 cm.
And then there is of course the dreaded “return to infinity to close” problem of all unit focusing folders, which has led to a lot of invisibly damaged folders.

henryvk said:

your best bet for a Super Ikonta III with a Tessar at a reasonable price, i.e. under 200€.

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Sorry about not searching back for more info on this, but: if you can get a Super Ikonta III with a tessar for 200 Euros, and it is in good condition, someone should buy it! That's a very nice folder

I currently located a local auction from a camera dealer where the price is around the 200€ mark, for a Super Ikonta IV 534/16 (broken light meter but good condition). Let's see!
The Super Ikonta III-IV does seem quite a good model on paper, around 700g in weight significantly lighter than the B models) with a Tessar 75/3.5 and 12 frames a roll, which is quite relevant nowadays due to film prices. If I go further into this, I practically want a complementary 2nd camera to the Fuji 6x9.

The Super Isolette indeed has climbed up a lot in price, as a lot of other high performing cameras, which have increased quite a bit. Independently of auctions, I might still be able to lend one to try.

Still, I haven't done much with the Nettar. Took some summer pictures well stopped down but have to enlarge those.

I was lucky to get a Super Isolette from Jurgen Kreckel about 20 years ago and it is pretty sharp. Here's a ipone image of a print I made about 15 years ago with a zoom in on the eyes. I think the hands are sharper tbh.

Dan Daniel said:

Sorry about not searching back for more info on this, but: if you can get a Super Ikonta III with a tessar for 200 Euros, and it is in good condition, someone should buy it! That's a very nice folder

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Just bought very recently a Super Ikonta 530/16 with Tessar 2.8/8.0 cm in very very good condition (shutter works, lens and bellows good, no Zeiss-bumps or any outer damage, rangefinder seems to be aligned etc) for 80 Euro! Still have to run a film through it though. Was on German kleinanzeigen.de ... (and I had family shipping it to me to Canada...)

Novar 105mm f/3.5 triplet - is 6x9 cm too demanding for this lens?

I have used a Super Ikonta B from early 1970s. Never disappointed with the results. My other 120 folders include Fuji GF 67, Makina 670, and a recently acquired Super Ikonta A. I tried a 6x9 folder, but found handling the camera awkward for my style of shooting, although many seem happy using this format.
From my viewpoint, the advantage of Zeiss folders is compactness and weight, giving the photographer something to grasp firmly. Some of the complaints about poor results from folders may be the result of flimsy construction.
There is also the need to create new habits. I recently replaced my car. The old car had shifter on steering wheel stem; new car between front seats, with result that I sometimes turn on windshield wipers instead of putting in gear.

Mamiya-Six with the Setagaya Koki Sekor lens is pretty sharp. The corners are a bit soft when focussed at infinity, but with lens stopped down a bit, they're sharp. Its internal focussing at the film plane is quite clever, too. I've used this camera for serious work, and have been quite happy with it. It was my main camera over in Japan this past summer. Here's a contact sheet:

I could only skim parts of this really long thread, but I will chip in with a recommendation for the Mamiya 6 folders. Not even so much because of the lens, but because they are LIGHT. My current 6x6 folders:
- Mamiya 6 (one of the later IV models sadly not the automat)
- Zeiss Super Ikonta 533/16 with the Tessar 2.8 T
- Certo 6 (repaired by Mr.Certo 6 himself though it still has some age quirks with the wind and double exposure prevention)
- Dacora Royal with the Ennagon 3.5 (very neat light little thing but the rf is uncoupled)

Out of the bunch if I am being honest the Certo 6 is a touch too heavy and the Ikonta is very heavy. It is not just the absolute weight but the fact that all that weight is concentrated in a square brick that makes them a bit of a pain to use. I also find that the advanced features (double exposure prevention etc) of some later folders are a liability and at least in the case of my Ikonta copy waste frames when I inevitable fire the shutter without remembering to cock it. My Ikonta's focus ring is also stiff, but darn if it doesn't look cool as heck with the little rangefinder lens.
I have mostly had good results with the Mamiya 6 though sometimes I miss focus badly maybe my eyes are bad at seeing the patch.

On the 6x9 front, I have two folders:
- A Franka Rolfix II (no RF so zone focus/external rf needed) with a Rodenstock Trinar (triplet I assume) 105mm f/3.5 lens - SUPER LIGHT very nice camera imo
- A Bessa II with the Color Heliar

I don't know if it is the sharpest 6x9 and it is definitely on the pricey side, but god I love the images I get from the Bessa II. (Has amazing sunstars too). It is just an incredible joy to use though I prefer having an external viewfinder for it because the window is so small. (Some sample photos of mine here if you like: https://www.flickr.com/photos/191721832@N04/albums/72157720092292912 )

Neil Grant said:

Novar 105mm f/3.5 triplet - is 6x9 cm too demanding for this lens?

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Unless you print LARGE there's not a problem with a good triplet on 6x9. I have an Agnar (off a different 6x9 folder) that's sharp enough when stopped down to read a license plate a block away on the negative. Plus, at f/16 or smaller and focused around 12 feet, it (just) covers 4x5...

I have a Zeiss Maxomar which is a 6x9 sheet film only folder. It came with a Zeiss Jenna 10.5cm f/4.5 which is a classic Tessar design. I didn't think it was that sharp ... and it isn't wide open. But stopped down it's tack sharp.

It's an interesting camera because it is so small and portable and the uncoated lens does marvelous things with specular highlights and background lighting. Not an everyday shooter but a way to revisit how our ancestors worked.

chuckroast said:

[...] Zeiss Jenna [...]

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Jena, not Jenna... Pronounced with a long "e" (e like in yes), double-n would make the e pronounced short in German...

ant! said:

Jena, not Jenna... Pronounced with a long "e" (e like in yes), double-n would make the e pronounced short in German...

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Ah sorry, a slip of the keyboard.

Dan Daniel said:

Sorry about not searching back for more info on this, but: if you can get a Super Ikonta III with a tessar for 200 Euros, and it is in good condition, someone should buy it! That's a very nice folder

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...aaand, I got that Super Ikonta IV for 170€ (current exchange rate). What follows is OT, but more of a testimonial of purchase:
I am actually impressed, it was sold by a photo store and no body else bid, given that I have seen Isolettes and Mess Ikontas being fought over and fetching 90-100€, although equipped with Tessar type lenses but in much worse/worn condition.
SN "Q" dating to 1960. The text on the door is worn out but quite a mint camera, no focus issues, RF seems aligned horizontal and vertical. Caveat till I develop the film. Meter is dead, but a perfectly acceptable and common defect.
Have the original box, manual, a note from an owner with some tios in German and Agfa film guides (CT18 and CN17). Astonishing fast ASA 50 & 40 film!

To hit the ground running, at ISO speeds of the space age, I loaded it with Delta 3200. It's dark season already and I will be able to try more dynamic conditions. Have shot already some portraits, with one or two frames wide open.

From the net, it weighs at about 700g. Hefty but not so heavy (300g shaved off the f2.8 Suoer Ikontas B). The Nettar is particularly weightless in comparison.
Let's see, I do plan to want to print large and will stop down more to the sweet spot of the Tessar when possible. Will not shamelessly compare performance to the Fujinon 90mm of my GW690.