Sharp grain, developer?

[ivenhoe]

Hi guys, I usually develop film by myself, once I developed it in a lab and got something that I like.
This is 5222, but I got similar results with HP5+, I asked them about the developer and it was DDX.
I don't think it's typical grain for DDX. I'm wondering how can I get similar image by myself, sharp grain, high acutance, high contrast.
What developer and process should I use? (I croped the picture a little bit)

 

[xkaes]

FYI, You can't always get what you want:

 

[ivenhoe]

No, basically I just want to replicate the image I attached.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I use XTOL and replenished XTOL for consistent fine grain and smooth tonality.

​

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

For sharp 'salt & pepper' grain I use Plus-X developed in D-76 1:1. Or did - I haven't dipped into my freezer store of Plus-X in quite a while, don't know how well it is aging.

I would think Ilford's FP4+ would work similarly.

If you are looking for prominent grain I would use TMZ-3200 or the ilk. Try Dektol as a developer. You can get tons of grain by taking pictures with a 20mm lens and then blowing up just the central bit of the negative. The problem here is that the grain, though big, is mushy.

 

[DeletedAcct1]

Hi guys, I usually develop film by myself, once I developed it in a lab and got something that I like.
This is 5222, but I got similar results with HP5+, I asked them about the developer and it was DDX.
I don't think it's typical grain for DDX. I'm wondering how can I get similar image by myself, sharp grain, high acutance, high contrast.
What developer and process should I use? (I croped the picture a little bit)

Ilford Ilfosol 3.

 

[xkaes]

No, basically I just want to replicate the image I attached.

That looks like high grain, low contrast & low acutance to me.

 

[ic-racer]

#5 or #4 paper.

 

[Pieter12]

HP5+, Rodinal, cropped.

 

[blee1996]

If the lab use DDX, maybe you can try higher temperature?

 

[Paul Howell]

DDX and Tmax developer were designed for T gain films which has finer grain than traditional grained film and is more of acutance developers. Pick any number of acuance developers, Rodinal (R09), diluted Microdol X or Perceptol at 1:3, any of the FX type developers, then old school DK50 or Acufine. Shoot a fast film but not T gain film, TriX, HP5, Foma 400 action plan, increase development by 10 to 20% and print grade 3 or 4.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

I don't think it's typical grain for DDX.

I honestly don't know how you can get such pronounced grainyness with DDX.

I've read that high temperatures (higher than 24ºC) will increase grain—and it would be my hypothesis in this case—, but I also know that people contest the effect of high temperatures on grain. As an experiment, it's probably what I would try first if I wanted to reproduce the grainyness of the image you posted.

 

[Christiaan Phleger]

hmm I agree in DDX seems a bit odd, I've long felt that DDX and Xtol were pretty close in 'standard practices' look and that grain does look a touch strong.
I'd have a look at the OP original negative density, prominent over-exposure plus maybe higher than normal processing temps on DDX might pop the grain, especially with scanning.

 

[loccdor]

No, basically I just want to replicate the image I attached.

Is your picture a scan of a negative? If so, it's possible the digitalization process could be playing a large role in the look. Specifically if sharpening is turned on and what radius and intensity.

 

[jimjm]

I don't think your original example looks particularly contrasty. If that's a minimal crop, it's extremely grainy. I've never used 5222 film, but it's advertised as having subtle tonality, good for use in dim light. DD-X is also a fine-grained developer, so these don't look like typical results. I'd agree with the previous comments that the scanning and/or overexposure might be playing a part, versus the choice of film or developer.
A traditional-grained film like Tri-X would be my choice for this look, maybe pushed a bit and overdeveloped to give it some "punch", if that's what you're looking for. If you're printing in the darkroom then it's easy to accentuate the grain to your liking.
This 35mm frame was Tri-X pushed to 800, developed in D76 1:1, +15% development time. It's a scan of the darkroom print which was done at grade 4, which started to give a grittier feel to the image.

 

[dokko]

that looks like a rather untypical result for Double-X to me, specially if developed in DDX (although I've never used that combo myself).

my guess would be that this image was underexposed quite a bit, resulting in a thin, low contrast negative, and than the scan was pushed up, which would make the grain more pronounced.
the crop would also make the grain larger.
so you could try to replicate it like this.

you could also try a developer like Rodinal or FX-39 II which probably also would show pronounced grain, but I'd expect them to produce a smoother image if exposed at normal speed, so somewhat underexposing would more likely look similar to our posted image.

I've got similar results with Fomapan 400, developed in Xtol 1+2, so you could also try that. again slight underexposure would make the grain more noticeable.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I've shot tons of 5222. Rodinal is what you want.

 

[250swb]

Hi guys, I usually develop film by myself, once I developed it in a lab and got something that I like.
This is 5222, but I got similar results with HP5+, I asked them about the developer and it was DDX.
I don't think it's typical grain for DDX. I'm wondering how can I get similar image by myself, sharp grain, high acutance, high contrast.
What developer and process should I use? (I croped the picture a little bit)

I think a good part of the effect you want was done during scanning. So it's hard to say where to start but the only one I would disagree with so far is FX-39 II which is like a cross between Rodinal and Xtol and I use it with Adox HR-50 and the grain is very low/small and the tonal/dynamic range very high. But it's not hard to make any negative look a bit like this during scanning and post processing by whacking up the structure/clarity and over-sharpening it so is this a lab scan and did they apply sharpening?

 

[ivenhoe]

I don't think your original example looks particularly contrasty. If that's a minimal crop, it's extremely grainy. I've never used 5222 film, but it's advertised as having subtle tonality, good for use in dim light. DD-X is also a fine-grained developer, so these don't look like typical results. I'd agree with the previous comments that the scanning and/or overexposure might be playing a part, versus the choice of film or developer.
A traditional-grained film like Tri-X would be my choice for this look, maybe pushed a bit and overdeveloped to give it some "punch", if that's what you're looking for. If you're printing in the darkroom then it's easy to accentuate the grain to your liking.
This 35mm frame was Tri-X pushed to 800, developed in D76 1:1, +15% development time. It's a scan of the darkroom print which was done at grade 4, which started to give a grittier feel to the image.

View attachment 378489

Hi, how to accentuate the grain in the darkroom? I process prints in Dektol and I usually get exactly what I see on the negative.

 

[dokko]

Hi, how to accentuate the grain in the darkroom? I process prints in Dektol and I usually get exactly what I see on the negative.

I would print with a condenser enlarger and a very high performance lens at it's optimal aperture. that should give a bit crisper grain, but generally speaking I select the film and developer that gives me the grain texture I'm looking for (ie TMY-2 in Xtol will never look like Fomapan 400 in Rodinal, no matter what you do in the darkroom)

 

[miha]

No, basically I just want to replicate the image I attached.

I used to get a similar result with Orwo Pan 400 or the original Agfapan 400, pushed one stop and developed in a dilute Microphen solution. Nowadays, I would probably try Kodak TMZ 3200 or Ilford Delta 3200 developed in Rodinal at 1+25 dilution.

 

[pentaxuser]

Ivanhoe the suggestion from miha sounds good to me but if it doesn't sound good to you then you'll have to choose another suggestion from the many that have been given

Nowadays, I would probably try Kodak TMZ 3200 or Ilford Delta 3200 developed in Rodinal at 1+25 dilution

pentaxuser

 

[xkaes]

Hi, how to accentuate the grain in the darkroom?

Use a point light source.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

I've shot tons of 5222. Rodinal is what you want.

+1 on that. I would go with 1-50 dilution but test for results.

By the way, I had that kind of grain when my bath water was warmer than the developer, on multiple developers/films scenarios. I consider that a failure but may work for you.

 

[Paul Howell]

Use a point light source.

At one time I had a Russian Federal point source enlarger. It used a clear bulb, might have been a refrigerator bulb, a Federal 50mm M39 camera lens. When I bought did not realize it was point source. I bought it as it as portable, came in a nice case. The grain was bad, as bad as the grain I got from my DIY point source I made from 50s vintage condenser enlarger, another Federal, but the America brand made in NYC.