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Selenium Toners - Brand Differences?


True, but I guess what I was referring to was a benefit of selenium giving the ability to "clip blacks" if you know what I mean. There are times when bumping the contrast doesn't work for me whereas if I could just drop out the blacks selectively and leave the mids and highs where they were, I would have ample "max" black but exposure where I want it.
 
All reflective print materials (FB prints or RC prints) are limited in dmax from about 1.8 to 2.2 or thereabouts. This is due to physical laws that create multiple internal reflections. Matte papers are in the low range of 1.8 - 2.0 and glossy are in the range of 2.0 - 2.2 as approximations.

These translate over into what happens when you tone. You are limited.

The lower the dmax and the softer the shoulder, the greater the latitude and detail in shadow areas. If you force it too far, you just get black on black and lose detail.

PE
 
One of the prints I toned last night on Agfa MCP RC 5x7 in KRST 1+10 for about 8 minutes, taken with a Nikon F3+20/2.8 on Pan F+ 50 in Rodinal 1+50:

 
Nice Clayne! I got a nasty selenium stain on the white border of the print. Is there any way of blasting that out? My judgment guesses probably not. Why can't I find a copy of Mr Rudmans f@#?#£% toning book!
 

I have never had any luck with MGIV and Selenium. The results were barely noticeable. MGWT reacts quite well, as others have noted. I am definitely going to try your procedure. It sounds fabulous. Would you mind outlining it in a just a little more detail (e.g., time and dilutiion)? How about a few examples?
 

Selenium toning extends the gamma curve's straight line a bit further and more linearly than exposure/development alone. Along with high acutance developers it works with film and with prints to provide more open shadows and unblocked highlights. It works very, very well.
 
Jarvman said:
Nice Clayne! I got a nasty selenium stain on the white border of the print. Is there any way of blasting that out? My judgment guesses probably not. Why can't I find a copy of Mr Rudmans f@#?#£% toning book!
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That means that your prints are not properly fixed. Your fixer might be exhausted and/or you fix for a short time. Make some fresh working solution and check again.
 
^^^ Yes... fresh fixer, rinse, hypo clear, thorough wash (your tools and hands too), then toner.
 
Anon Ymous said:
That means that your prints are not properly fixed. Your fixer might be exhausted and/or you fix for a short time. Make some fresh working solution and check again.
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Hmm ok, fair enough. The fix had been used before but it still smelled pretty potent. I supposed it wouldn't need as much fixing because selenium toner has a high percentage of fix right? Nevermind.
 
Jarvman said:
Hmm ok, fair enough. The fix had been used before but it still smelled pretty potent. I supposed it wouldn't need as much fixing because selenium toner has a high percentage of fix right? Nevermind.
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That would be convenient, but it's not true. If you still have silver halides left, some of them will be fixed, but some of them will react and form silver selenide, hence the tone at the border.
 
I had the same problem when I first started toning with selenium. The procedure Mike1234 outlines is bulletproof but lengthy. At the very least, you have to wash the print thoroughly before toning.
 
Don Wallace said:
I had the same problem when I first started toning with selenium. The procedure Mike1234 outlines is bulletproof but lengthy. At the very least, you have to wash the print thoroughly before toning.
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I've only heard this is necessary if it's not coming right out of the fix bath.
 
You can do a quick rinse after fixing (fresh fixer) and use a combination hypo clear with selenium toner followed by normal wash but I don't like to do that. IMHO, if an image is important enough to print and tone it's important enough to go the full course.
 
Yes, but doesn't Se toner contain fixer anyways? Washing fixer out when we're putting it back into a substance containing fixer isn't going to buy us anything, right?
 
BTW, I recently did the straight jump from fixer to Selenium (1+4) and I will say that experience shows me that while Se toner may contain the same elements of fixer - it sure as heck doesn't include acetic acid (which is undoubtedly hanging around in your fixer bath after a few prints). The result: stained trays, stained toner, and ineffectual toning. I don't recommend it and am now back to washing before and after toner.

A couple more recent examples with higher dilutions of KRST (1+20) on MCP RC (Glossy) and MGIV Warmtone RC (Pearl), both 5x7 prints, originally shot on APX400@1600:


The MCP reliably tones as a light purplish tan, whereas the MGIV WT definitely takes on a more chocolate brown feel. I like them both, and I like the variety of not only different papers but the way Se toner feels/appears different even on the same paper but different print. I've only been printing for a couple of months now and am still picking up the nuances of things.
 
The most important thing to remeber when working with selenium toner is to clean up spills. What you smell is the hypo in the toner, the hypo is not toxic. The selenium stays in solution. Wear rubber gloves or use tongs so as to not to get it on the skin, but if you do spill some on yourself rinse it off well. The real danger is from inhalation of dust left over from dried spills. Selenium dust is carcinogenic if inhaled. There are formulas for mixing your own toner from raw selenium. This is were you could run into some serious problems with out using the proper dust mask and mixing it indoors where selenium dust could go into the ventilation system.
 
 
Bill has a very good procedure. With careful utensil and hand washing he "should" never experience staining.
 
clayne, the simple procedure to remember is; after fix wash for 5 min, hypo clear for 5 minutes, wash for 5 minutes, tone, then quick rinse, hypo clear for 5 min, then final wash (time depends, use the residual fixer test). This is the archival procedure for FB papers.
 
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