Seeking advice with PF's reversal kit (what went wront with my first try?)

[Photopathe]

Hi! I am trying to figure out what I can do to improve on my next reversal development with Photographer's Formulary Reversal kit. I followed the instructions. The film used was a 35mm Scala 160. To me there seems to be at least two problems with my first attempt: incomplete reversal on some frames and black spots all over. I wrote to PF's to seek advice but (somewhat understandably) I didn't get any reply.
Thanks!

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Does Formulary reversal kit tell you how to use it with Scala 160? AFAIK the kit is based on Dietrich's formula and meant primarily for reversing TMax films. The relatively high amount of sodium thiosulphate (32g/l) might not give best results for films like Scala 160 which do not need such high amount of halide solvent in the first developer.

By any chance do you have a picture of the film after bleaching?

 

[YoIaMoNwater]

The black dots seem to be from potassium permanganate, either undissolved or manganese oxide. This can be solved by longer clearing with the metabisulphite bath. Also it seems like bleaching wasn’t long enough as solarisation occurred. I would take a film leader strip and do the first dev, bleach, clear, and second dev steps to see if you can end up with a clear strip at the end (only parameters I would change are bleaching and clearing times).

 

[Photopathe]

Raghu: Yes the kit is primarily intended for TMax films (100 and 400) but I didn't realize how important it was to stick to this type of film with this process. Unfortunately I do not have pictures of the film just after the bleaching step.
YolaMoNwater: Ok I will try extended clearing and bleaching time. Should I do that even if the next attempt is with TMax? And how much longer would you recommend? I am going to try with a 4x5 sheet of TMax 400.

One more question. Step 6 of the process is: Rinse in Forma-Flo solution for one minute with agitation, then rinse in water for 5 minutes. I don't understand the reason for that step. I assume I may use any other brand of wetting agent, am I right? I used the one I usually use at the end of my normal developments, Tetenal Mirasol. Reason for that is that Forma-Flo is the one thing not included in the Reversal kit.

 

[YoIaMoNwater]

That’s gonna depend on experimentation. I would just do what @relistan is doing with his copper sulphate experiment and just develop a lot of film leaders with the same dev time. Then just bleach until the metallic silver is gone by inspection. Then do the clearing step until the brown/yellow stain is gone also by inspection. And lastly do the second dev. You do all this in daylight since we want to see the removal of the developed film leader.

I would do to the clear step then stop. This will give you a good idea of what your highlight/film base layer will look like. Then take another film leader and do the same thing but this time do the second development. If the film is the same then you’re golden. If it gets dark then it means that your first development is not long enough so just extend the dev time. Also, make sure to adequately wash between each step since they work against each other.

As your for your question on Forma flo, I’ve never used it. I use Tetenal stabilizer for a min but then rinse the whole film with distilled water. The good thing is that metallic silver is an antimicrobial so the stabilizer step can be skipped. B&W films are much less prone to bug damages than color films.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

If you're going to try TMax 400 next, I would suggest to follow the instructions exactly but shoot at EI 200 or better bracket.

It should be ok to use a different wetting agent than the recommended one.

 

[YoIaMoNwater]

Yea, definitely bracket your shots, I usually do -3 to +3.

There was a thread here that also used this kit for TMax400 but the result was too dark. This was probably due to the fact that Kodak changed their TMax400 emulsion so that the old instructions do not produce optimal result.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Would be surprised if Formulary didn't test the kit against reformulated TMax and update its instructions accordingly.

 

[Photopathe]

Following up long after...
Second try with the PF reversal kit. This time with a 4x5 TMY sheet film. Much more manageable and enjoyable with sheet film. Also it's the recommended type of film instead of the Scala 160 I used with my first attempt. It went well and I am fairly satisfied. I filtered the bleach solutions with a very fine filter to avoid the black dots from the first try. Also I did skip the wetting agent + formalin step.
But it looks to me like the film base and highlights are not as clear as they should. Am I right? Also there is a tint that is not usually there on TMax 400.
From what people on this thread advised previously, I assume I should have cleared longer?
Also, is it correct that I should try to overexpose 1 stop when shooting with the intent of doing a reversal B&W?
Now I also want to try with 8x10 but I only have Fomapan 100 in that format so will have to find the proper developing time with the 1st developer from PF...
Thanks!

 

[Photopathe]

@Raghu Kuvempunagar
@YolaMoNwater

 

[YoIaMoNwater]

@Raghu Kuvempunagar
@YolaMoNwater

Hey, just saw this. I've stopped with doing reversal after moving to a different flat.

I think your bleach has been exhausted.

It seems like you reused the bleach and the orange/brownish tone are leftover silver on the emulsion. This is a common problem in reversal where bleaching is incomplete.

I've never used the PF's kit but from what I'm reading it seems like it's a permanganate bleach. They are know for their instability. The black spots you filtered out are oxidized KMnO4 (potassium permanganate ) into insoluble MnO2 (manganese dioxide). I always one-shot my reversal chemistry because of this.

One recommendation I would give is to just buy the potassium permanganate power yourself. You'll also need access to sulphuric acid to make the bleach solution.