Seeing in Black and White

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DREW WILEY

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An advantage of a hybrid flow, Soda Ant, or just a deception, making you think an ant mimic is a real ant? It ain't. When I want really black skies I just leave the lens cap on when I trip the shutter.
 

MTGseattle

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I may be misreading this, but what you guys seem to be suggesting is that OP shoot the scene he likes on digital, goes home and works on it on his computer, and then goes back to shoot it again this time on film... which will give him a totally different result than the one he has on his computer.

I don't shoot digital, so maybe the idea of carrying a digital camera and first shooting in black and white works for some, even though the digital black and white has little to do with how the film will record it. Seems to me a kind of a convoluted way to achieve your goal—I mean, as long as your shooting the scene with your digital camera, why bother to shoot it with your film camera?

I think those 2 replies were directed more at my comment than at what the OP was asking. Sorry for derailing the train.
 

Alex Benjamin

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I think those 2 replies were directed more at my comment than at what the OP was asking. Sorry for derailing the train.

Ah ! Missed that. I'll delete my post, as it is irrelevant to the discussion.
 
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Yep. Want that black sky effect? Just pull down the slider on the blue channel to 0 and you get the equivalent of a deep red filter. Mask the sky so you don't affect anything else.

This kind of thing is one of the advantages of a hybrid workflow.

I found that overdoing those adjustment creates artifacts. You have to use a light touch.
 

DREW WILEY

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Ian. I am completely sympathetic to your plight. I'd be frustrated too if I had to devolve to digital tricks. Fortunately, I have a real darkroom and sets of real contrast filters. Most hybrid options reproduce about as well as mules do.
 

SodaAnt

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Ian. I am completely sympathetic to your plight. I'd be frustrated too if I had to devolve to digital tricks. Fortunately, I have a real darkroom and sets of real contrast filters. Most hybrid options reproduce about as well as mules do.

Just curious… Do you consider dodging and burning in the darkroom to be “tricks” in the same league as “digital tricks”?
 

DREW WILEY

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No, I consider that kind of thing basic darkroom procedure if needed because it's so easy to do. Just a scrap of cardboard is needed, not a big complicated software subscription. Jumping through all those digi hoops might have been necessary back when giant carnivorous geeks roamed the earth in the Jurassic or whatever; but maybe it's time for you to move on too. I can't say much at the moment - just chomping on my lunch until I get back to it in the darkroom, where life is so much more enjoyable than sitting here on my butt typing on a keyboard just to make you guys envious.
 

SodaAnt

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Ah, sounds like analog snobbery to me!

As I don’t have a full darkroom at the moment, I’m restricted to scanning and Photoshop. I do like Photoshop, however, and the control it gives me to do things enlarger jockeys can only dream of. One of the things I really hated when making prints was spotting them. Tedious and time consuming. I can do the equivalent in Photoshop in seconds.
 

Sirius Glass

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Ah, sounds like analog snobbery to me!

As I don’t have a full darkroom at the moment, I’m restricted to scanning and Photoshop. I do like Photoshop, however, and the control it gives me to do things enlarger jockeys can only dream of. One of the things I really hated when making prints was spotting them. Tedious and time consuming. I can do the equivalent in Photoshop in seconds.

Basic darkroom procedure has been around before you were born. The snobbery is from your point of view only.
 

DREW WILEY

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The "market" is tailored to take your money, not to make better prints, or even necessarily to do the task easier. And the more often you need to replace your e-gadgets and software, the more that industry makes. And the fact that all of that quickly goes obsolete and needs frequent upgrading is an great idea investment-wise. A serious enlarger might last one or two hundred years, and only need a periodic light bulb change.

But when it comes to nuanced control, maybe you should take a look at the output of serious darkroom printers. For many of us, being forced into digital options would be a significant step backwards. Of course, it helps to work clean. Spotting is miserable no matter how you do it.

Otherwise, I have no idea what you mean by "analog snobbery". Do you have some kind of meter with a little dial on it which reads the level of snobbery? I never even heard of the term "analog" in relation to photography until the name of this forum got changed. It's was always just photography plain and simple for nearly two hundred years before geeks had to come in with some kind of distinction because they couldn't seem to understand the real deal. Kinda like needing a digital app to tie their own shoes.

Now I wonder if there is an upcoming distinction between "analog" automobiles you drive yourself and driverless ones which know how to crash into tricycles and trees all by themselves, or at least with the help of someone writing their software.
 
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MattKing

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Moderator hat on:
From the Photrio Forum Participation Rules, found here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/photrio-forum-participation-rules-update.198834/

4. All photography is valid. There is no need to argue that one particular breed of photography, approach, technique, etc. is better than something else (e.g. analog/digital discussions). Discussions along these lines tend to follow the pattern of religious and political debates and generally don't end well. We, therefore, don't encourage them and will generally put a stop to them.

And from the earlier version, found here: http://photrio.ltd/tos.html

-no digital vs. traditional threads

It is fine to express your preference, but past that ....
Hat is now off
 

faberryman

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But when it comes to nuanced control, maybe you should take a look at the output of serious darkroom printers. For many of us, being forced into digital options would be a significant step backwards.

We'd love too. What have you got to show us?

I never even heard of the term "analog" in relation to photography until the name of this forum got changed. It's was always just photography plain and simple for nearly two hundred years before geeks had to come in with some kind of distinction because they couldn't seem to understand the real deal.

You have been using the term analog as a synonym for film photography since joining the forum in 2011. Here is a post from July 14, 2011, just ten days after you joined, wherein you described what you do as "analog dkrm techniques":

I'm one of those folks hoarding matrix film, which I hope will stay good in the freezer a few more years until I retire and have enough time to seriously dye transfer print. In the meantime I've acquired all the necessary supplies and equipment, have mastered separations and masks using analog dkrm techniques exclusively, and have worked out the protocol for wash-off relief technique, which seems a little more straightforward than tanning development. This is a process which has tactile appeal (especially if you make your living using a computer and are damn sick of it); but is also capable of rendering hues with a vivacity very difficult or impossible to achieve with inkjet or other digital color printing techniques.

The name of the forum was changed from Analog Photography User Group (APUG) to Photrio circa 2016.
 
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Ian David

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-no digital vs. traditional threads

It is fine to express your preference, but past that ....
Hat is now off

Thanks Matt. Could the moderators maybe just create a sticky post that sits at the top of all the forums advising us all of Drew's preference, and of course his skill, so he doesn't have to worry about repeating that stuff in every single thread?
 

SodaAnt

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Otherwise, I have no idea what you mean by "analog snobbery".

This is going to be my last post on this thread related to this subject, but I think you deserve an answer.

When you use words like “giant carnivorous geeks”, “a step backwards”, and “the real deal” that’s what I mean by analog snobbery.

If you get better results for the work you do in a traditional darkroom, fine. More power to you. I respect the people who get great results using purely digital methods just as much as I respect the traditionalists.

I don’t go to galleries, and 99% of the work of others I see is on a monitor, so I’m sure that colors my tastes.

There. I’m done.
 
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You have been using the term analog as a synonym for film photography since joining the forum in 2011. Here is a post from July 14, 2011, just ten days after you joined, wherein you described what you do as "analog dkrm techniques":



The name of the forum was changed from Analog Photography User Group (APUG) to Photrio circa 2016.

I for one regret that the "analogue/digital" distinction, valid in an electrical or electronic context, ever came to be used into the photographic sphere. I just think of myself as a "film photographer" most of the time, while I do use both film and digital cameras.

[and if you take "analogue" out of the matter, you don't have to worry or argue about how you spell it]
 

DREW WILEY

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Well, I went onto the "analog forum", looked around, then looked at "Today's Posts", saw this thread as potentially interesting, but failed to notice that I had crossed the border into the Hybrid Empire with its own dialect. My mistake; so I scurried back over the border before the posse got rounded up. Guess I better double check the fine print next time. But it's hard not to poke fun at the flip of terminology itself. It meant a certain thing for nearly 200 years, and then suddenly all bets are off.

But at least I was less blunt about the term than many digital imaging pros I've run into who wished they had the time and space to do "real" photography too - THEIR WORDS, not mine - and not "analog". I've never heard that expression used by any of them. And here I am, at the geographic epicenter of the tech revolution. Often it's more a question, "I just inherited my uncles's camera, so where can I buy real film?" Why would those types want a relaxing hobby the same as what they are forced to do to make a living? Think about it.

Plenty of techies are buying vintage film cameras and film. They don't think of it as backwards, but as trendy. ... Yeah, real estate is now obscenely expensive here, so many of them resort to labs to process the film and print it for them, or to provide them with a scan too, so in that sense, practice "hybrid", whether they consider it ideal or not. But I've never even heard them using the term, "hybrid". They just do what they can do, then supplement that with a professional service.
 
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Tim Stapp

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Being stone color blind, as described by my Opthomologist as being "Text Book" I have no issue seeing in black and white. Seeing, let alone printing in color is my issue. When I began kindergarten, I could read. I passed the color test because the crayons had the colors written on their wrappers. At the end of the school year, I was almost prevented from passing to the 1st grade because I couldn't pass the color test. Thank you to my uncle (Mom's brother) who suffered the same issue, I was diagnosed as being color blind, nearly totally.

BTW: Color blindness is passed from mother to son. Thankfully, my daughter has only our grand daughter. So, hopefully the cycle is broken.
 

Sirius Glass

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Amen, my friend. Living in Michigan and having the first name "Tim" I can still write my name in the snow. Being from So. Cal., you may not understand 😄

I only skied at 42 ski resorts in North America, so I think I can snowplow through.
 
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