Searching for a good concert 35mm Compact Camera

Paul Howell · Feb 19, 2017

On the Pentax IQ zooms, the DX will set it to 800 and then there is an option to push the EV by 2 stops on the camera? Is that what you mean?

You are going to assume that the exposure is 2 stops under exposed and push by 2 stops. Of course it would be good to test, roll of Delta 3200, shot in similar lighting, cut the roll into 3, one develop at box speed, one push and third at two push. I dont have any experience with T800 so dont how well it will push. Other film option is Fuji 1600 if you can a find roll, just one push to 3200 or 2 to 6400. Unless you are printing R44 analog the color can be corrected during printing.

mynewcolour · Feb 19, 2017

Has anyone here used the XA3? I haven't.

Essentially the same camera as the XA2 (it seems) but ISO can be set all the way up to 1600.

I'm a bit worried the OP will get camera shake letting the camera shoot for 800 ISO.

mynewcolour · Feb 19, 2017

Paul Howell said:
On the Pentax IQ zooms, the DX will set it to 800 and then there is an option to push the EV by 2 stops on the camera? Is that what you mean?

Who are you asking?

RobbieMnemonic · Feb 19, 2017

mynewcolour said:
Yeah the flash almost doubles the size and weight. I use flash so a MjuII is far better.

On the XA2 all you control is iso (up to 800 IIRC) and rudimentary zone focus. You may want to read up a little on zone focus if it's new to you. The further the subject is from the film plane the easier it gets! (worst instruction ever but you get the idea). And yes go with the distances in the manual.

Thanks for all the help! I'm leaning towards the XA2 for now then! Sounds like a nice and cheap option!

RobbieMnemonic · Feb 19, 2017

mynewcolour said:
What's 'scenic' mode? The mountains/infinity?

If so... Yes.

Yeah the mountains icon. The manual didn't name it so I just assumed they were trying to say "landscape" or "scenic views" or something.

mynewcolour said:
Has anyone here used the XA3? I haven't.

Essentially the same camera as the XA2 (it seems) but ISO can be set all the way up to 1600.

I'm a bit worried the OP will get camera shake letting the camera shoot for 800 ISO.

OP?

RobbieMnemonic · Feb 19, 2017

Paul Howell said:
On the Pentax IQ zooms, the DX will set it to 800 and then there is an option to push the EV by 2 stops on the camera? Is that what you mean?

You are going to assume that the exposure is 2 stops under exposed and push by 2 stops. Of course it would be good to test, roll of Delta 3200, shot in similar lighting, cut the roll into 3, one develop at box speed, one push and third at two push. I dont have any experience with T800 so dont how well it will push. Other film option is Fuji 1600 if you can a find roll, just one push to 3200 or 2 to 6400. Unless you are printing R44 analog the color can be corrected during printing.

mynewcolour said:
Who are you asking?

I have a question about "pushing" and "EV" on film. So, on digital, you set the EV to +1 or -2 or whatever stops you need to force the camera to adjust your exposure. But on a film camera, is there a similar function, or is all pushing and pulling done in the lab/development stage? I guess I'm a little confused about that.

mynewcolour · Feb 19, 2017

OP = Opening Poster.

RobbieMnemonic · Feb 19, 2017

mynewcolour said:
OP = Opening Poster.

Oh ok! Haha! So you are concerned there will be shake on the XA2 because the ISO is set to 800? Why would that be?

mynewcolour · Feb 19, 2017

RobbieMnemonic said:
I have a question about "pushing" and "EV" on film. So, on digital, you set the EV to +1 or -2 or whatever stops you need to force the camera to adjust your exposure. But on a film camera, is there a similar function, or is all pushing and pulling done in the lab/development stage? I guess I'm a little confused about that.

I depends on the camera.

The best type of camera to learn with is just a manual SLR like your Mamiya. You don't need Exposure Compensation as a feature if you're controlling exposure (both aperture and shutter speed) yourself.

RobbieMnemonic · Feb 19, 2017

mynewcolour said:
I depends on the camera.

The best type of camera to learn with is just a manual SLR like your Mamiya. You don't need exposure compensation if your setting it yourself.

I see. So let me ask you this: Is there a pro vs con reasoning as to pushing or pulling in camera vs having the lab do it? I mean, does it look different in the end?

mynewcolour · Feb 19, 2017

RobbieMnemonic said:
Oh ok! Haha! So you are concerned there will be shake on the XA2 because the ISO is set to 800? Why would that be?

Because there may not be enough light to keep shutter speed above a decent speed.

If your auto camera could set a higher ISO, you could push your film and you'd have a better chance.

mynewcolour · Feb 19, 2017

RobbieMnemonic said:
I see. So let me ask you this: Is there a pro vs con reasoning as to pushing or pulling in camera vs having the lab do it? I mean, does it look different in the end?

Pushing is always done at processing stage (strictly speaking). All you are doing in camera is exposing.

You can underexpose X stops and push Y stops at processing. X and Y don't have to be equal.

Hope that makes sense.

mynewcolour · Feb 19, 2017

We're really covering some ground in this thread!

RobbieMnemonic · Feb 19, 2017

mynewcolour said:
Pushing is always done at processing stage (strictly speaking). All you are doing in camera is exposing.

You can underexpose X stops and push Y stops at processing. X and Y don't have to be equal.

Hope that makes sense.

Makes perfect sense! Thanks!

mynewcolour said:
Because there may not be enough light to keep shutter speed above a decent speed.

If your auto camera could set a higher ISO, you could push your film and you'd have a better chance.

Ah ok! I get it. So maybe finding something along the lines of the XA2 but with a higher ISO limit might be a better route?

RobbieMnemonic · Feb 19, 2017

mynewcolour said:
We're really covering some ground in this thread!

TOTALLY! lol! I greatly appreciate your help!! (And everyone else too!)

RobbieMnemonic · Feb 19, 2017

mynewcolour said:
We're really covering some ground in this thread!

Going back to "poor man's leica" What about something like the Canonet ql17 gIII? Might that be a good choice? It seems someone pocketable? Or the Yashica Electro 35?

mynewcolour · Feb 19, 2017

There aren't many cheap compact cameras I'm familiar with that allow manual ISO settings. The XA3 would be the obvious choice.

Hey, happy to help. I find it quite a useful/healthy to pass on my (limited) learning.

Those two are good cameras. I had a play with some Yashicas. I particularly liked the CCN. Read up before you buy. There are (easily overcome) battery issues. I hear the Canon has a documented mechanical failure point too. I prefer the manual and completely mechanical Olympus LC personally because whilst all of these have really good lenses, the issue is keeping them going – they were 'consumer' grade cameras.

mynewcolour · Feb 19, 2017

By page 5 you'll have bought a Leica.

:-D

faberryman · Feb 19, 2017

Do you have press credentials? If not, they may not let you in with an interchangeable lens camera. You really need to check.

RobbieMnemonic · Feb 19, 2017

mynewcolour said:
There aren't many cheap compact cameras I'm familiar with that allow manual ISO settings. The XA3 would be the obvious choice.

Hey, happy to help. I find it quite a useful/healthy to pass on my (limited) learning.

Those two are good cameras. I had a play with some Yashicas. I particularly liked the CCN. Read up before you buy. There are (easily overcome) battery issues. I hear the Canon has a documented mechanical failure point too. I prefer the manual and completely mechanical Olympus LC personally because whilst all of these have really good lenses, the issue is keeping them going – they were 'consumer' grade cameras.

I found an XA3 on eBay that seems pretty good. It has to ship from Japan though. So that might be annoying. I like the 1600 option on it.

mynewcolour said:
By page 5 you'll have bought a Leica.

:-D

I wish!

faberryman said:
Do you have press credentials? If not, they may not let you in with an interchangeable lens camera. You really need to check.

No, no press creds. That's why I'm looking for a single lens compact.

John Koehrer · Feb 19, 2017

Something that hasn't been mentioned(yet) is the situation with spotlights on stage.
With an averaging meter which means most compacts. It is very possible to burn out the highlights entirely.
Ever seen a snapshot where the stage is dark and there's a white blob on someone's shoulders?

But with that the Olympus SP does have a spotmeter function.......http://www.kenrockwell.com/olympus/35-sp.htm

***Another thought is the size of the viewfinider. The SP and GIII 1,7 are decent sized. Compact cameras VF's can be pretty squinty.

Chan Tran · Feb 19, 2017

RobbieMnemonic said:
What are the cons for those in your opinion?

The lens is only 35mm and the max aperture is f/2.8 for the XA and f/3.5 for the XA2. Film with speed higher than 800 is not really usable. No manual exposure control. For the kind of concert lighting it's better to have manual exposure control.

Paul Howell · Feb 19, 2017

RobbieMnemonic said:
I have a question about "pushing" and "EV" on film. So, on digital, you set the EV to +1 or -2 or whatever stops you need to force the camera to adjust your exposure. But on a film camera, is there a similar function, or is all pushing and pulling done in the lab/development stage? I guess I'm a little confused about that.

Most point and shoot zooms exposure and shutter speed is all auto, there is no read out, you dont know what your aperture or shutter speed is, a few of the more advanced models and brands give more information. So in this case, by turning on the flash you know that the shutter speed will be hand holdable, you tape over the flash so it does give away to the staff and the flash will not reach the stage anyway. All you can do is shoot , push, and pray. You can pick up any number for point and shoots for under $20, I get mine for a just few dollars. Pentax IQ zoom ranged as long as 180 and 200, the lens are quite good for a budget camera. You will need to send your film to a custom lab for push processing. I think Blue Moon will push film.

Fixcinater · Feb 20, 2017

Best fit from what I have seen would be a compact fixed lens rangefinder. Faster lenses that can be a bit longer, some had 40-45mm f/1.7 which is a whole lot more light than the P&S which only ever had f/2.8 (except for the bulky Canon ML which was 40/1.9). AF in a concert setting is asking for trouble and any of the P&S compacts that had manual focus and more settings are going to run $2-600. There even is a Yashica Lynx 14E that has a 45/1.4 but that's basically as big as a small SLR so might get too much attention. A lot of the compacts were 35mm and that's a different scene than the 40mm.

Manual focus would be easy to set once and basically forget about it, unless you totally changed where you were shooting. Manual setting of aperture and shutter would allow you to underexpose as much as you like, and you could have the shop develop the film however you wanted.

Last suggestions would be to do a search or three on Flickr for the venue and see what other film shots look like, what a Stylus Epic can get you for results in low light and what some of the other options might do for you. I would not want to be trying to remember to shut off the Epic's flash...but that's why I don't have any of them any more after trying them several, several times.

blockend · Feb 20, 2017

There are two aspects to the question, what is ideal, and what will get past the bouncers. The answer to the first is easy, an SLR with a 50mm or 80mm f1.2 lens. The second is trickier, and means finding the most inoffensive camera available in the hope the bag search will conclude you don't have a clue what you're doing, and let you pass as a harmless idiot. Go for something pink with hello kitty stickers and you should be good.

Searching for a good concert 35mm Compact Camera

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