sales details for Leica RF

[FotoFunfDreissig]

I dont think that there is anything cheap about a lot of japanese cameras. Canon made one of the best Leica lenses out there, the .95 TV Lens "Dream". I played with one not long ago, and I reckon it does 99% of the Leica equivalent for 1/5 of the price second hand, Beautiful bokeh and creamy light...Yummy... I adore Fujis older products, and I am hoping to purchase a medium format GW tomorrow if it is still on the shelf. I will also admit I own a digital Fuji too, even though it is like a swear word in here.

What does it matter what he uses to shoot, so long as he does, I have only been a member here for a few days and haven't posted any of my works so I am in no position to complain about his apparent lack of doing so. But I can say this, Leica makes a really robust, compact reliable body and some of the best lenses in the business. They have been doing this since day dot. anyone who is shooting with a rangefinder camera must concede that without these roots their own japanese equivalents wouldn't exist as they are whether improved upon or not.

just get out there and shoot! By the way E Van Hoegh, I took my own advice, and made a pinhole today

 

[Dali]

They are not for professionals , I am not talking about wedding photography.

Sorry to disagree but you have a huge majority of professional photographers against you. Maybe you can teach them what is real professional photography and how they should use anything but Leica...

 

[one90guy]

I have only seen pictures of Leica cameras and they are very nice looking. If I suddenly came into a large sum of money I would buy a new car, I love my cameras and my dinky darkroom. My only paying shoot was a car show, got one of there t shirts as payment, which is what I asked for. I certainly have nothing against Leica owners and do not have a clue if they are better than my Nikon, Argus, Yashica, or Rollei. I have compared photos taken of the same subject at the same time and taken a digital at the same time. With my eyes I can not tell any difference. Lucky my only critics are my wife and daughters so I think I am pretty good:^) Just my 2 cents worth.

David

 

[AndreasT]

Over and over again, it will never end will it?
How many people more need to die because of religion?

 

[FotoFunfDreissig]

Andreas, it really is the same argument isn't it.

Oneguy, your cameras sound great, I love Yashica and Rollei stuff, especially the TLR box stuff. Just make sure they get good use out of you.

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Over and over again, it will never end will it?
How many people more need to die because of religion?

When one has faith (or is delusional) facts are superfluous.

 

[David Lyga]

In my 63 years what I find most remarkable is the change in attitude towards Japan. When I was about six I went with my father to a 'five and ten cent store' and remarked that the toys looked cheaply built. He responded (and without prejudice!) 'they are probably made in Japan'. Since then, much has changed about just how 'cheaply' Japanese products are. Or are NOT! He is still living and driving in Connecticut and, at almost 91, praises his Suburu.

Whether Mustafa is correct or not about Nikons and Canons fully capable of being able to 'ruin' photos is not up my alley. But I will say this: through the years there HAS been occasional criticism of the utter 'sharpness' of Nikon and Canon lenses and how they, somehow, compromise the 'aesthetic' of the photo. I am not going to lend an opinion here because I feel that I have no right to do so. But I will say this: even if Mustafa seems to be, by some, somewhat wayward in his thinking, I think that there is much to heed in simply listening to his counterargument. He just might have some truth to impart. We do not need absolute concensus here.

In sum, let's not fall into the trap of bringing an 'analogous, latent Pearl Harbor' into the equation when we wish to either laud or denude some entity or country or mindset. Let us use only hard facts, tethered by nothing else, to make our cases. Emotion can be mighty dangerous. Do I make any sense? - David Lyga

 

[Dinesh]

Here's what annoys me about the Leicaphiles. It's the attitude - that they're somehow special, more knowledgeable than non-Leica users.

We are special and more knowledgeable than non-Leica users, especially those Linhof weasels!

 

[semi-ambivalent]

I'm going to buy an ALC MP for my 60th birthday so people will think I'm crazy and, hopefully, leave me alone.

s-a

 

[E. von Hoegh]

We are special and more knowledgeable than non-Leica users, especially those Linhof weasels!

Aha! but I wasn't talking about Leica users. I was talking about Leicaphiles, or as I spell it, "Leicaphools" (those who see things that aren't there). They're related to "Audiophools" (those who hear what is not there), who buy things like "pre-tested fuses" and special wood knobs to go on the volume control pot, for $300.

As for Linhofs, when I use my Linhof I always wear a shirt which says"My other camera is a Deardorff".

 

[Richard Jepsen]

What are the 5 year online purchase prices for M3,M2,M4,M5,M6, and used MP bodies? Stable or down?

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Of course, anyone who is serious about image quality isn't fooling with the little bitty pieces of film the Leica takes anyway. I've never been happy with image quality in prints larger than say 10"x15" from 35, and prefer 8"x12" as a max. enlargement. This includes images from the Leicas I had. It's not about sharpness but tonality, after a certain degree of enlargement the smoothness goes away.

 

[semi-ambivalent]

Of course, anyone who is serious about image quality isn't fooling with the little bitty pieces of film the Leica takes anyway. I've never been happy with image quality in prints larger than say 10"x15" from 35, and prefer 8"x12" as a max. enlargement. This includes images from the Leicas I had. It's not about sharpness but tonality, after a certain degree of enlargement the smoothness goes away.

I believe the quality of a print and the quality of its content are two distinct and separate matters. Confusing these clouds a lot of discussions.

s-a

 

[elekm]

Aha! but I wasn't talking about Leica users. I was talking about Leicaphiles, or as I spell it, "Leicaphools" (those who see things that aren't there). They're related to "Audiophools" (those who hear what is not there), who buy things like "pre-tested fuses" and special wood knobs to go on the volume control pot, for $300.

As for Linhofs, when I use my Linhof I always wear a shirt which says"My other camera is a Deardorff".

A buddy of mine claimed he could hear sounds above 20khz. Yet, I had to repeat nearly everything that I said to him. I guess his hearing didn't extend below 20khz.

 

[one90guy]

Andreas, it really is the same argument isn't it.

Oneguy, your cameras sound great, I love Yashica and Rollei stuff, especially the TLR box stuff. Just make sure they get good use out of you.

Thank you, the TLR's have become my favorite cameras but I have never used or owned a camera that I did not like

David

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I believe the quality of a print and the quality of its content are two distinct and separate matters. Confusing these clouds a lot of discussions.

s-a

I agree completely. Technical quality is easy, I like to be certain it's there for when I capture the other kind.

 

[semi-ambivalent]

I agree completely. Technical quality is easy, I like to be certain it's there for when I capture the other kind.

Well, it's really nice to have both of course, but I've seen more than a few pictures weak on the technical side that were still powerful images. Even that Leica saint Bresson produced a lot of stuff of lesser technical quality. But we see his photographs (and those of others) through the goggles of history and their fame and our nostalgia. I wish my photographs were good enough that they could be crap at the same time...

s-a

 

[FotoFunfDreissig]

I agree, content/composition is way more important than image quality. Some of my favourite pictures are ones taken with disposables or similar. Nostalgia also, is a powerful thing, I reckon it is a large factor of why so many of us still use film myself included.

David - Sorry for hijacking your thread.

I find it interesting that you mention Japan. When they first started producing and shipping cars out of their domestic market, not many people bought them. The few that did, soon found that rather than being rusty buckets of flimsy metal, they were actually really well engineered, reliable and comparatively well priced. More and more started to realise, and Japan quickly became the fastest growing automotive industry in the world.

The same thing is happening in Korea, just look at the quality of a modern Kia or Hyundai these days, especially when compared to the stuff they made ten years ago. They have caught up to everyone else and are releasing on par. The same thing will happen with China. They are currently making things on par with the early 80s domestic cars from japan, using borrowed or copied hardware. but just see how quickly they evolve into being leaders.

Pedro

 

[David Lyga]

FotoFunDreissig: you did not hijack 'my' thread. In fact, more 'thread' keeps the garment from tearing.

But the 'facts' surrounding the perception of Japan are amazing. When I was little, Pearl Harbor was the 'reason' not to trust the (as they were pejoratively called) 'Japs'. I think that we have gone very far since then. In the mid-70s when I was living in New York I briefly worked at Marubeni Corporation and the most stupid thing that I ever did in my entire life was to leave them. (I think that my inability to mature when it was necessary to mature was my whole later problem in life.)

Their whole attitude towards people and employees was absolutely amazing to behold and there was not a single day I worked for them (in the then Pan Am building atop Grand Central Terminal) when I was not treated with dignity. I do hate the Japanese whale hunting but I love how I was treated by them. The problem with the USA is that we think that we are the 'standard' of everything under the sun. We cannot be: we do not even know how to embrace other cultures (unlike how the British always did in their Colonial history). - David Lyga

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I agree, content/composition is way more important than image quality. Some of my favourite pictures are ones taken with disposables or similar. Nostalgia also, is a powerful thing, I reckon it is a large factor of why so many of us still use film myself included.
David - Sorry for hijacking your thread.

I find it interesting that you mention Japan. When they first started producing and shipping cars out of their domestic market, not many people bought them. The few that did, soon found that rather than being rusty buckets of flimsy metal, they were actually really well engineered, reliable and comparatively well priced. More and more started to realise, and Japan quickly became the fastest growing automotive industry in the world.

The same thing is happening in Korea, just look at the quality of a modern Kia or Hyundai these days, especially when compared to the stuff they made ten years ago. They have caught up to everyone else and are releasing on par. The same thing will happen with China. They are currently making things on par with the early 80s domestic cars from japan, using borrowed or copied hardware. but just see how quickly they evolve into being leaders.

Pedro

It's not just nostalgia. About 2 or three years ago, I looked into what it would cost to replace my late 60s/early 70s Nikon gear with digital capable of delivering comparable quality - two bodies, six lenses, darkroom stuff, all costing in the neighborhood of $1000. The digital replacement - including a top grade printer and a computer capable of running the latest PS, all the software etc. came out to costing as much as a medium price car. To add medium format, another car. For my 4x5 and 8x10 cameras, there is no digital replacement available at any price. So for me, film not only does things digital cannot do, it does it with comparable-to- hugely-better quality at 1/30 the price of the 35mm equivalent.

There's also the learning curve, I've used PS enough to know it is not and never will be a joy for me to use, unlike darkroom work. And digital does not result in a hand-crafted product (such as a mounted contact print from an 8x10 negative).

 

[E. von Hoegh]

Well, it's really nice to have both of course, but I've seen more than a few pictures weak on the technical side that were still powerful images. Even that Leica saint Bresson produced a lot of stuff of lesser technical quality. But we see his photographs (and those of others) through the goggles of history and their fame and our nostalgia. I wish my photographs were good enough that they could be crap at the same time...

s-a

The technical quality is the easy part. Buy a good camera, read and follow the instructions.
Once you've become comfortable with the gear, you are free to work on your vision. It really is that simple.

 

[semi-ambivalent]

The technical quality is the easy part. Buy a good camera, read and follow the instructions.
Once you've become comfortable with the gear, you are free to work on your vision. It really is that simple.

I know what you're saying; I meant more like I wish my images were so fabulous that their technical quality would be considered relatively irrelevant. (Ideally by those paying me large sums to own them.) I've seen this in action.

s-a

 

[E. von Hoegh]

I know what you're saying; I meant more like I wish my images were so fabulous that their technical quality would be considered relatively irrelevant. (Ideally by those paying me large sums to own them.) I've seen this in action.

s-a

Oh yes, I got that part.

 

[FotoFunfDreissig]

I think we all wish we took photos like david la chapelle or whoever you guys might aspire to like.

David - I have been lucky to spend quite a lot of time in Japan, and I must say, their attitude towards other people is amazing.
Everywhere you go people want to help you. especially if like me you are tall and blonde. lol
Seriously though, they are generally captivated by westerners, and as long as you are polite you will be guaranteed a great time anywhere you go. The food IMO is the best there is, and man is it ever one place you need definitely take a camera. Everything there looks cool.
If i had the chance I would live there for sure. Being that I live in Western Australia, where you average night out results in one of your friends being attacked, I can easily deal with some occasional business shake downs by yakuza, if it means I get to experience their legendary hospitality.

E van Hoegh - totally, I can understand not only the cost involved with digital putting you off, also how Photoshop does not allow much enjoyment.
I dont use photoshop personally but even Lightroom is just a relatively soul-less method of altering processing. I have only recently started with digital and haven't really give a whole lot of time into post processing. I am only really doing such at all because I am working on a blog to showcase efforts of myself and friends. Really I like the organic feel of developing, washing, drying photos and physical manifestation of your work as a result, and as you know, you can always scan the images afterwards. Couldn't Agree more.

Pedro

 

[chip j]

What does Mr. Sarac think of the Japanese-made Contax G Zeiss lenses?