Running water temperature control without Intellifaucet (UK)

[adelorenzo]

I plumbed in this Honeywell thermostatic valve, cost me well under a hundred bucks.

https://www.honeywellstore.com/store/products/honeywell-ram101cus1-thermostatic-mixing-valve.htm

 

[ITD]

the Intellifaucet fits the UK plumbing;I ran one in Essex and it is the best thing for water control. a simpler mixing valve may work but needs constant attendance.

That's useful to know if my financial position improves, thanks Ralph!

 

[John51]

I just looked up the price of the intellifaucet. Wow, that would cover a lot of E6 lab processing.

The lowest stable temps I can get with my combi boiler and mixer taps is too high. Not by that much though. Yet to try is have running water and let the overflow do its thing. The SS sink might dissipate enough heat to get the temps down to something workable.

Another plan is to use a large stockpot and sous vide machine. Easy enough to knock up some form of plastic holder for the tank and chem bottles. Washing is a problem. I've yet to come across any mention of flow rates. If the blurb says wash for 2 minutes, is that 2 minutes of trickle trickle or 2 minutes of fire hydrant power? Two extremes but what is the ball park for flow rates? An aquarium pump could be used to achieve a better flow rate.

 

[FujiLove]

I use a Jobo CPP2 for E6 which is a little easier because it has the extra two water bath slots that you can use for wash water.

This is what I do:

1. Fill a big pan with several litres of water and get it as close to 39C by hand (note, 39C, not 38C, as it will cool a bit while you carry out the first dev stage and decant it from the pan).
2. Fill one the the Jobo bottles close to 38C and put it in the water bath with the chemicals (you can also stand it in the tank part of the bath on a CPP2 depending on tank size...not sure if you'll have room)
3. Use the water from this bottle for the first wash which needs to be within 1 degree of 38C.
4. Use the rest of the pan water for the final wash (this can be 35C to 40C). I decant it into a big plastic jug for easy pouring into the lift.

One day I forgot to fill the bottle and just had to grab water from the pan for the first wash. I checked the temperature after I'd finished washing the film and it had dropped to around 35C. It seemed to make no difference to the slides.

If I were you, I would just use a big pan and keep a kettle of boiled water handy. Buy a nice big quality thermometer that sits on the side of the pan, and which you can monitor easily. When the temperature falls to 37C, grab the kettle and pour a bit in. You very quickly get a feel for how much you need. Dead easy and costs almost nothing.

 

[ITD]

If I were you, I would just use a big pan and keep a kettle of boiled water handy

Thanks FujiLove, that's pretty much my current setup, except my 'big pan' is only about 6 litres. If the mixer tap option doesn't work out I may just consider a bigger pan but I'd prefer something I can just run from the tap. The shower mixer idea would have benefits elsewhere too.

Thanks for the ideas guys

 

[FujiLove]

Thanks FujiLove, that's pretty much my current setup, except my 'big pan' is only about 6 litres.

Same here, but I only run a couple of films at a time and my small tanks only require around 300ml of wash water. It's enough for 15 wash cycles, with a bit left over to keep the temperature from cooling too quickly. I sometimes top the pan up halfway through the final wash if it's a bit cool - usually if the room's colder than usual.

 

[Wayne]

I wonder how something cheap like this would work. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SYC1IV6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1_1_1?smid=AFYZNN7ULQWBK&psc=1

They call it a mixing valve but I wonder if it is really a kind of limiting valve, preventing the temp from exceeding a certain value but not preventing it from falling below.

 

[REAndy]

Ran back and grabbed my JOBO 2300 manual and it states that a minimum of 15 PSI is required on the tempered water line and that the incoming water should be within +/- 0.5 degrees C of the process temperature.

Guess it would be hard to get 15 psi from a standing reservoir unless it was 15 stories above you...

I just wanted to clarify that you only need about 35 feet of height to get 15 psi water.

 

[adelorenzo]

I wonder how something cheap like this would work. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SYC1IV6/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1_1_1?smid=AFYZNN7ULQWBK&psc=

They call it a mixing valve but I wonder if it is really a kind of limiting valve, preventing the temp from exceeding a certain value but not preventing it from falling below.

It's a thermostatic valve similar to the Honeywell one I posted above. Mine works just fine. I have it set at 21 C for my black and white needs but I did test it at 38 C as well. I plumbed in a temperature gauge on the outflow.

 

[thuggins]

I can't speak for using a JOBO, but the water in my apartment is very inconsistent. It is central hot water, so you never run out. But the pressure varies greatly depending on who turns on a faucet, flushes a toilet, etc. Taking a shower is always an adventure. Unfortunately, all the faucets are mixing valves, which are typical in the US. So adding a secondary temperature regulating valve is not an option.

Here is how I solve the problem with a developing tank. First wash comes out of the water bath. The tank and lid were sitting in it anyway to bring them up to temperature. The washes after the first and color developer come out of the water bath. For the final wash after the BLIX I fill a pitcher to around 97-98F and get four rinses out of that (Ilford rinse with a fourth using 40 inversions). While doing that I try to get the temperature to stabilize in the mid nineties and put the tank under the faucet. The temperature is constantly checked by finger or infrared thermometer. The hot water is turned down over the course of a couple of minutes until it is completely off. In the summer cold water in Texas is 90F, so I just let it run for several minutes. In the winter I keep monitoring with the infrared thermometer to avoid spikes.

I know that houses in in England tend to have a single "boiler" for both hot water and domestic heating, but if you can control the pressure (i.e. flushing toilets and making sure the house heat doesn't kick on) you should be OK.

 

[Wayne]

It's a thermostatic valve similar to the Honeywell one I posted above. Mine works just fine. I have it set at 21 C for my black and white needs but I did test it at 38 C as well. I plumbed in a temperature gauge on the outflow.

Do you have a thermometer in line so you can tell how consistent it is? I didnt click on your link when I first read it.

 

[Wayne]

I also didnt realize this was a UK discussion, but that explains the talk of "mixing bars".

 

[adelorenzo]

Do you have a thermometer in line so you can tell how consistent it is? I didnt click on your link when I first read it.

Yes I do although I just keep the set screw locked down at 21 C so it's not like it ever changes.

Also noted that the Amazon one does not have check valves built in whereas mine does. Without them when the water is off you will get backflow from whichever side has more pressure.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

That's useful to know if my financial position improves, thanks Ralph!

it's just money; the last shirt doesn't have any pockets for a reason.

 

[John51]

An aquarium water pump could be used to circulate water while processing and then be used to pump the water into the developing tank for washing. A cheap pump I looked at is quoted at 600L per hour, so 10L per minute. In practice, it might be less. Is 5 litres per minute an adequate flow rate for washing?

Non aquarium submersible heaters can be hard to find and expensive. Cheapest option is to mod an aquarium heater so that it's always on. Temps can then be set with a 300w light dimmer.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Are they any good? The mixing valves I’ve seen appear to protect against over heating but don’t say much about maintaining temperature.

they need constant attention.

 

[Young He]

Not sure if someone’s mentioned this method, but I use a pid controller and a heating unit. Not the most accurate (+/- 2C), at least with the crappy k-type thermometer, but I am working to improve accuracy with a resistance thermometer, which should give +/- .1C.

 

[ITD]

Not sure if someone’s mentioned this method, but I use a pid controller and a heating unit. Not the most accurate (+/- 2C), at least with the crappy k-type thermometer, but I am working to improve accuracy with a resistance thermometer, which should give +/- .1C.

Hi, does that control running water via some sort of heat exchanger, or to heat a reservoir of some sort? Can you show us the current setup maybe? I'd be interested to see it.

 

[pentaxuser]

it's just money; the last shirt doesn't have any pockets for a reason.

Nice one

pentaxuser

 

[Young He]

Hi, does that control running water via some sort of heat exchanger, or to heat a reservoir of some sort? Can you show us the current setup maybe? I'd be interested to see it.

I have a 1000w heater element suspended in a 3ish gallon bucket, and I have a submersible pump to circulate the water. The chemical bottles are placed in the bucket and are warmed up. Search up diy sous vide unit and you should get the gist of things.

 

[Geofff199]

I have a 1000w heater element suspended in a 3ish gallon bucket, and I have a submersible pump to circulate the water. The chemical bottles are placed in the bucket and are warmed up. Search up diy sous vide unit and you should get the gist of things.

Hi, I just saw your post on seeing another person using Rockland polytoner to develop Kodachrome films. However, the link you attached seems expired. Could you tell me her name/website, so that I can look more into this topic? Thanks a lot for replying.

 

[Besk]

I wonder just how much water you really need for a processing batch? What's the volume of water required?

Couldn't you just put a reservoir of sufficient water capacity above the jobo and heat it with a Sous Vide heater?

Ditto on the reservoir idea.
I have a large container of maybe 5 gallons which is filled with water at the desired temperature and used as wash water.

 

[Samu]

The key question is: how big a range of wash water temp can E6 stand. If it is quite a big range then you may be OK with combi temps. You need to weigh what a combi gives you against the cost and fuss of installing a system that controls temp to say less than 1 degree.

If you aim is to avoid jugs etc for processing then consider a Jobo machine. Yes it will be several hundred pounds but a thermostatically controlled heating system for say the darkroom may be just as expensive

pentaxuser

Officially. the temperature range for first wash in E6 is 33-39°C. So, the requirement is not very strict Although I don't use 3 bath kits, I suppose you could assume it is the same for these processes.

 

[BobUK]

Free standing, catering water heaters, and thermostatically controlled boilers for home brewing may be of use if you only require 4-5 gallons of water that is not under pressure.

My brewing boiler has a tap near the base, and a separate thermostat switching the mains power on and off for whatever temperature I desire.

You just need to bucket in some water, and plug into a 13 amp socket.
Check the total electrical load will be safe for all the equipment that will be switched on at the same time.


My own experiences of colour developing was using a Paterson Thermodrum.
Washing only required a few jugs of pre-tempered water.
So it was not a big problem for me at the time.

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