rules, rules rules ...

[Paul Verizzo]

I think people should have to pass an examination in order to be able to purchase and use a camera.

The exam board could consist of the most anally retentive and reactionary members of APUG, which should ensure that no one would go around the place taking any pictures at anything other at box speed, developing them in D76 (or at least using anything other than box speed only after two years of intensive grey-card photography) and then printing them in a darkroom on Azo paper. Or have a beard that isn't bushy or wear a hat that isn't a Stetson, or own any form of mobile telephony device. Or be younger than at least the average age of the exam board.

That'd show the little fuckers what rules are for ...

So, one time I took a two night class on "Selling your photographs." The teacher was truly accomplished in that, made a living doing both free lance and assignment work of travel and nature photographs. Believe it or not, there were several individuals in the class who obviously weren't even "doing" photography yet, just dreaming of an end result! One woman asked, "What kind of camera should I get?"

Before the teacher could respond, I blurted, "An Argus C3 and a roll of Tri-X." Stunned silence as he tried to process that. I don't remember what he eventually said.

The second night I brought in a book by Helmut Newton, one of my favorites. He looked through it at said, "I don't get it." That was a major "Ah ha!" moment for me, understanding a difference that is not often seen.

That teacher was a master at what I now call "Pretty pictures." Which is what most of the public confuses as art. You know flowers, sunsets, puppies. If a response to a photograph is "Ah................", it sucks.

Which is why there was a market for his work.

 

[Photo Engineer]

engineers and scientists make rules; artists break them(and get better images)

I am both an engineer and artist. I get to make the rules and break them both!

PE

 

[BrianShaw]

Sorry PE, there is a rule: one or the other, but not both.

 

[OptiKen]

I sometimes use homemade pinhole cameras and guess at everything .....
I guess at exposure .....
I shoot K64 slide film and then develop in B&W chemicals.....
I've shot 3200 ASA that had been stored hot after it's expiration....
Rules?
Rules????
What rules????

 

[BrianShaw]

Well you don't have to talk about me that harshly, do you? And if so, just call me out by name!

 

[removed account4]

this thread has been interesting, to say the least.
it seems my query is misunderstood ..
I don't think work sux if it doesn't break rules ..
sometimes I think perfect rule following images are perfect,
utterly beautiful and they prove the rules ..
but sometimes .. well just following rules only makes barely interesting
photographs ... i

 

[Bill Burk]

If Rube Goldberg could be an artist and an engineer.
I see nothing wrong with PE being both as well...

Now can you be a hobbyist, professional and artist at the same time?
That's the question I want to know the answer to.

A quote by Minor White in Zone System Manual...

"Practical as the system is to the professional man, the
system fully comes into its own in the practice of the man
who is dedicated to the use of photography as camera-work
or as a medium of expression-creation. For this man, pre-
visualization, that act by which subject, equipment, light,
materials, the man, his responses and purposes are united
into one cohesive experience, is the very atmosphere of
creativeness."

Now that is what I keep missing.
I have no problem with subject, equipment, materials.
And I know I have to be more aware of the light.
But I am most deficient in responses and purposes...

For example, I love the photographs Steichen took of Rodin's sculpture, Balzak.
In this spirit a friend of mine, brought over one of his sculptures and I set them out on a canvas,
I lit the scene with photofloods and took some shots.
Totally professional, but I think nowhere near reaching the level of "response" that Steichen had.

 

[alanrockwood]

186,000 miles per second. It's not just a good idea. It's the law!

 

[darkosaric]

artist and an engineer.

Leonardo da Vinci.

Let me hear that somebody says that he was not artist and an engineer.

 

[Photo Engineer]

186,000 miles per second. It's not just a good idea. It's the law!

Lets argue. A lab in Germany has achieved 8x that speed in tests with special materials. They have even sent information. This violates the rule.

But then I read that the speed of light equals the escape velocity of a mass that has the estimated size of the universe. My question is, escape to what?

PE

 

[BrianShaw]

Leonardo da Vinci.

Let me hear that somebody says that he was not artist and an engineer.

Oh... him. Good point! I'm sure that he would have been a fantastic photographer if he was born into a later era.

 

[pdeeh]

Surely you mean Richard Amidol?

 

[Photo Engineer]

I think you were pretty clear. But then some guy started with the old decisive moment Adams sucks pretty pictures vs art nonsense. What a diaper full. Reminded me of those heady days with the guy who was learning from Amedon's printer.

Anyway, back to the rules and arguments, I have a problem with the way in which PE characterized the faster-than-light stuff.

I have not posted that due to time dilation. I have to move sideways in the tesseract.

PE

 

[BrianShaw]

Just make sure you use your turn signal when moving, please.

 

[lxdude]

PE, you're gonna have to get your tesseract together!

 

[lxdude]

Just make sure you use your turn signal when moving, please.

This from a guy in Los Angeles!

LA drivers never use their turn signals, except they always do when they're in a designated left turn lane where they have to turn left and everyone knows it!

 

[BrianShaw]

Well, we do... but it is generally AFTER completing the lane change.

 

[lxdude]

Well yeah, that's true...