Rotary Processing

[Aggie]

..

 

[David Hall]

Chris,

By now you have probably heard that you're supposed to "expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights". If you don't want to spend a weekend doing a lot of specific testing, the easiest thing is to look t your film every time you develop it. Look at the shadow densities and make sure there is always detail there on the film. Then look at the highlight densities, which of course will be darkest, and make sure that there's sufficient detail there, too. Shadows too thin...ISO is too high (assuming yoru meter works). Highlights too dense...developing is too long or temp is too warm.

I once did the battery of tests, but somehow this approach has made it so my whole process is more familiar and integrated, from setting the ISO on the meter or camera to timing the development. I am to the point where I "know" this negative (I shoot sheets, mostly) is going to need more time or less time in the developer, and I am more and more right every time. Fine tuning.

dgh

 

[David Hall]

OH, and Chris,

I did all of this before seeing Les's book and it still revolutionized the way I do the craft part of photography.

dgh

 

[chrisl]

Boy, strong recs on Les' book. I'll check it out. Reading madman recently: Read Tim Rudman's Master Photo book, and am reading Steve Simmon's View Camera book now. Both I enjoyed/enjoying.

David, what a great way to learn. I've always learned better anyway hands on approach. And now that the negatives a bit larger, judging properly exp negs will also help with this task. Great idea!

Just to confirm, I saw Steve's post of 250ml in the 8x10 drum. Is this enough for 4 negs inside?

 

[SteveGangi]

Yes, 250ml is enough. As long as there is enough to "wash" over and coat the film that's all you need. I've seen recommendations for less too, when doing one sheet.

 

[David Hall]

For what it's worth, probably not much, I use 1 litre in the Expert just to be sure that I have enough chemistry, and it's easier for me to do measuring when the final volume is a standard.

dgh

 

[SteveGangi]

I don't think a full liter would fit in a 8x10 Unicolor tank, because you never really seal the open end. Taking a wild guess (never tested it), I'd say you can get 400 ml in it before it sloshes out.

 

[bmac]

I agree

 

[chrisl]

Thanks guys, I've got a good idea now. Still waiting delivery of the Unidrums...darned slow ebay transactions! lol

 

[LFGuy]

You can do 500 mL in an 8x10 Unidrum, without it sloshing out.

 

[Sherman]

I have been using the Unicolor drum and motor base for about a year now. I've used it with TMax 100 and APX 100 films and D76, Rodinal, Ilfosol S, TMax and TMax RS developers. My favorite combinations so far are TMax 100 developed with TMax RS 1:9 (great shadow detail and the highlights don't block up) and APX 100 with Rodninal 1:50 (nice edge effects even with constant rotation).

I rate both films at ISO 100 and develop at 75 degrees F. I always presoak for five minutes. I have never gotten streaks or uneven development with film I have presoaked. I use 250ml of solution for four sheets and have used as little as 180ml with 1 or 2 sheets.

Short of having a Jobo this is about the most consistent process around.

 

[SteveGangi]

Even without the consistency, it sure is a relief to not live in terror of the evil light switch and the "oh! I'm sorry I didn't know!" that goes with it.

 

[Robert]

What's the cheapest way to temper a jobo tank? I know they sell just a tempering system but it only fits the 1500 tanks. Anything that will handle a 2500 series? Plans on building one?

 

[bmac]

I keep my heat even with my unicolor drums by submerging tupperware bottles of chems in a waterbath that is heated by a 15w aquarium heater.

 

[Aggie]

..

 

[Robert]

Somebody suggested aquarium heaters but it seems the ones with controls top out at 93F. How about the Doran?

 

[Donald Miller]

Robert,
I guess that I don't understand why the 93 degree limit would be problematic.
I built a water tempering unit that uses cartridge heaters which are 3/8 inch diameter and are capable of being installed into a 3/8 compression fitting that can then be screwed into an appropriate size plumbing fitting. For temp control I have a + and - 1/2 degree controller. I am not sure that this would be an economical solution for you, however if you are interested you may email me off post for a source to the supplier of the materials that I used.
Many years ago, I used an acquarium heater and it worked as well. All heaters, of this type, do need to be immersed in liquid or they overheat and fail prematurely.

 

[Ed Sukach]

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dnmilikan @ Mar 14 2003, 05:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I guess that I don't understand why the 93 degree limit would be problematic.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
RA-4 (color print) processing is *usually* recommended at a temperature of 35 degrees C (95F).

C-41 (color negative) is *usually* done at 38 degrees C (100F).

 

[Donald Miller]

Ed, Thank you for enlightening me. I have not worked in color in so many years that it doesn't enter into my considerations any longer. I guess that in addition to my memory getting shorter, it is getting narrower as well. Thanks once again.

 

[Robert]

I think E-6 is 38C to. I'm figuring out what to order from Freestyle and might get some of the old E6 film. It would be fun to try and might convince me that I can't do it at home-)

 

[Ed Sukach]

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Robert @ Mar 14 2003, 07:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I think E-6 is 38C to. I'm figuring out what to order from Freestyle and might get some of the old E6 film. It would be fun to try and might convince me that I can't do it at home-)</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>
You are right ... E6 is *usually* developed at 38C.

Why do you think you can't do "at home"?

I would suggest the Tetenal "3 Bath kit."
Let's see ... First Developer, then Color Developer and then Bleach-Fix. No "Reversal exposure" - oops - I suppose that "dates" me.

The first transparencies I ever developed were "Anscochrome" wth the Ansco kit.
-- 16 "Steps" in eleven different solutions .... exposing the film to a #2 (?) floodlamp two feet away from a transparent reel for the reversal exposure. I still have one of those kits.

- Ah ... memories. The kitchen sink filled with 100 degree (??) water and bottles of chemicals... Gallons and gallons of wash water ... four or five hours to process...

 

[DKT]

E6 is about 102, but there's slight leeway on either side as longs as it maintains it extremely well...if you decide to try it at home using these tubes, figure out a way to preheat the tube dry, using ambient heat. Most of the manufacturers recommend not using a preheat with water now, since this causes sensitometric shifts with the newer chrome films. Might not be noticeable for some, but if you run control strips, you'd probably see it. I run E6 at work in a Wing Lynch machine, which is another type of rotary processor--different principle from the Jobos and in my opinion a better processor than anything they make, but it's also more expensive...although I haven't used one, a Super Sidekick is another type of rotary processor--so they're not all Jobos....

For your E6 though, you're gonna need some consistent hot water, for the tempering and the wash steps. The first half of the process is less forgiving--downright nervewracking--as far as temp. goes. Everything about your film is decided early on in these first few steps, so the temp needs to be spot on and needs to stay there. I think if I had to do it at home I'd use small one or half gallon tanks with lids, and run it in a waterjacket. This is the way I run b&w everyday almost--in a deeptank line--tanks that sit in a waterjacketed tank, in a deep sink. You want to do a film run, all you do is run the waterjacket a bit, pull the covers and floating lids, load your film on reels/hangers, run it, hang it in the dryer. It take me 45min to an hour to do a run, this includes hanging the film in a dryer and cleaning up....it's real consistent. our negs pring the same today as the ones we ran ten years ago....might sound boring, but for studio work, that's the way to go...fwiw--if you want to run b&w control strips, Kodak puts out a manual similar to the E6 one, it's Z-133E. "Monitoring and Troubleshooting B&W Film Processes". The control strip Kodak makes, is on a TMY base.

hope this helps.

KT

 

[Robert]

My idea of temp control goes like this for B&W.

1) Drop thermometer in developer.

2) This time of year it'll be about 64F so I add a little time at the end.

3) In a few months it'll be 68F so I'll use my normal time.

Very laid back.

Now I read the E6 docs and they talk about fractions of a degree-)))

The reversal exposure doesn't date you. I've been reading the Ilford docs for B&W slides. That sort of had me stumped until I noticed that a flourscent light would be good enough. Well I've got a stand made for startiing tomatoe plants. Just happens to be about the right length for a roll of film and over kill for sheet film.

Now the Ansco part dates you-))) Is that before the Agfa merger or after -))))

 

[Robert]

I get the impression E6 is for the same sort of people who brew decotion lagers at home. I make English style ales. You can't get much further apart in mindset.

 

[DKT]

Actually, I send my own film out to lab...I run E6 as part of my job, not for fun. I'm sorta spoiled now by a being able to do a film run in 40 minutes at a flip of the switch. I could buy 25-30 Jobos CP? whatever for the price of a Wing Lynch, so I figure that's a hell of alot of E6 processing at a lab, let them have the headaches...

Not to mislead you though--E6 is anywhere from 98-103 degrees F, give or take +/- .3--.5 degrees, depending on how you do it/ Tanks, tubes and small tanks all have slightly different requirements. our machine has heated and nitrogen pressurized tanks that are set up for a little above 101. the water jacket runs at 102 and the wash steps come in at 102 as well. this is controlled by an Intellifaucet water panel. In a Wing Lynch, the water is set at about one degree higher than the tank temps. But at any rate, the temp is controlled really well, and the only problems that ever happen in regard to this, are because of water supply fluctuations. You basically need a hell of alot of hot water in a system like this, or some way to recirculate it & temper that. The most critcial steps are upfront though, and as you get down through the bleach and fix etc., it's pretty forgiving and alot of E6 is like b&w in a way--just more rigid. There are other issues besides temp though, and water is at the root of about all of them....

KT