Rolleiflex old standard film transport problem, can I fix it myself??

[aca]

Hello,

Last weekend I was able to buy an old Rolleiflex standard, besides a missing screw on the user's left side and cosmetic a little beat up, everything else seems to be ok.
Well after shooting and home developing I see the following negatives strip and I am not sure what the problem exactly is and if I can fix it myself?

See photo 1: frame 12-19 are black and the other frames partly overlap and the roll also ends with half a photo, just before frame 1. I guess the frame spacing is not working properly or I made a mistake at the start of the roll.

A dumb question: how are the frame numbers being printed on the filmstrip? In camera or already printed by Ilford?? I see even frame number 19 which surprises me as I only shoot 12 frames

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

What does the last picture in the middle of the film show? Are there any double or more images on the same part of the film? If not then this means that you didn't cock the shutter or you did cock the shutter but it is stuck.

Further, from your film roll it appears that the film was completely advanced before opening the camera, so the film advancing system works however should get cleaned since there is overlapping. You can do that yourself by taking off the part of the camera with the advancing lever and clean the inside 'gear clockwork' with some lighter fluid.

The numbers are factory printed - the camera does not print numbers on the film. Film numbers are high since the film can be shot at different framesizes. There are e.g. Rolleiflexes which can use different images frames, e.g. 4,5 x 6 and 4 x 4.

This your type of camera? :

Since you are in A'dam...send pm if you want more info.

 

[aca]

Hello Ron,

Really appreciate your info, thanks. There are indeed double images, some overlap half an inch. It seems the last 7 images are "taken", but the first 5 not.

And yes, that's indeed the camera I have. I will send you a PM and continue in dutch

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Ha Barry,

Hierbij nog wat info over jouw camera. Er zijn 3 typen gemaakt: de 620, 621 en 622. Benieuwd welke jij hebt - met het serienummer en het type lens (opening/brandpunt) kun je hem vrij precies dateren.
http://www.rolleiclub.com/thedarkroom/?p=3076
Volgens de beschrijving kan de achterklep eenvoudig verwisseld worden met een platenhouder of rolleikin achterwand. ...

gr.Ron

 

[aca]

Finder lens: NO 361369 and 3.1

Taking lens: Carl Zeiss lens f:3.5 and no1619006

So that makes I have model 622, but the strange thing is the shutter speed just goes to 300 which should be a 620 or 621 model

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Finder lens: NO 361369 and 3.1

Taking lens: Carl Zeiss lens f:3.5 and no1619006

So that makes I have model 622, but the strange thing is the shutter speed just goes to 300 which should be a 620 or 621 model

Perhaps a transitional model.....all these standards to some extent were produced over the same long period..
....or shutter stuck on 1/300?

btw did you solve the transport problem in your camera?

 

[shutterfinger]

http://www.rolleiclub.com/cameras/tlr/info/early_tlr.shtml
http://www.rolleiclub.com/cameras/tlr/info/serial_numbers.shtml

 

[OldStandard]

Hello

For your top speed, check if you are using it correctly:
Top speed can only be selected before cocking the shutter and you need to push the lever firmer.
If you push firmer to select 300, it's your top speed, otherwise check if you can select 500 with shutter uncocked.
Only latter Rolleis with EVS and 5 blades aperture have a speed selection independent of the cocking mechanism.

For the spacing:
The old standard doesn't measure accurately the film advancement.
Latter models starting with Rolleicord Art Deco, have a milled wheel above the receptive spool that update the frame counters.
But on the Old Standard, the frame counter is only updated when you turn the crank forward.
The spacing is highly dependent of the film thickness and the receptive spool diameter.
To increase spacing, try with a large wooden spool and the thick film.
For thick film, I can only think on Lomography with their thick cardboard backing paper, maybe you can reroll another film with this backing paper

There were actually two frame counter mechanisms on Old Standard
One that stops displaying 12, that was posted earlier by Ron
One that stops displaying a red dot

This version actually shoot 13 frames, check how many times you can turn the crank before hearing the "counter end clicks"
You don't hear it between 12 and the red dot but you hear it when you crank after

On a 13 frames counter, the spacing is very tight, expect 2mm overlap unless you use a thick film;

A larger survey must be conducted but I think 620 and 621 have the 12 frames counter and 622, the 13 frames counter
I think it was factory made.
Spacing is not something that can be changed by user, it needs some metalwork or retrofitting the other version
Here is the part responsible for the spacing, I think, since I can't find the disassembly photos of a 12 frames counter for comparison

On you film, only the first half is blank, were they shot the same day, with the same lighting conditions, it may be some speeds not working.


By the way, I hate using the red window, I simply line the start arrow with L-turn, then close the back, crank 7 times with uninitialized counter, then initialize the counter and shoot the 1st frame.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

The spacing is highly dependent of the film thickness and the receptive spool diameter.
To increase spacing, try with a large wooden spool and the thick film.
For thick film, I can only think on Lomography with their thick cardboard backing paper, maybe you can reroll another film with this backing paper

All great info, thanks!
What also might work to overcome the spacing problem (I did that with my Super Ikonta since they have a comparable spacing problem, and were made for thick paper backing): in stead of re-rolling your film, first put about a half roll of paper (left over from a developed film) on your spool, than attach the beginning of your film roll to the end of that paper roll. It worked on my Ikonta.

 

[Dan Daniel]

in stead of re-rolling your film, first put about a half roll of paper (left over from a developed film) on your spool, than attach the beginning of your film roll to the end of that paper roll. It worked on my Ikonta.

I found a small post-it note served to offset the spacing enough to even out a Super Ikonta with automatic frame spacing. Easier to carry and attached itself to the backing paper when loading. Experiment iwth different orientations and maybe different size post-its (not sure if they are called the same thing in Europe- usually yellow, small tabs of paper with removable adhesive along one edge- https://www.post-it.com/3M/en_US/post-it/ )

 

[aca]

Tx guys for all the valuable info

@OldStandard I am going to try your suggestions. I have tried to see what happens with a rerolled film if the frames line out a bit (i will put a vid online soon). That was quit difficult but I did notice I had to crank 5 to 6 times before seeing no 1. When I first used the camera I thought I could shoot after lining up the arrow and after the first crank ;P