Rolleicord Vb, Xenar 75mm/3.5 Resolution Test

[Dragan Bojovic]

Hi Friends,

Today i did a Resolution Test with my new Rolleicord Vb, the Image was shot handheld @f4, 1/250s on Retro 80s Film, this Lens is definitively razor sharp wide open or near wide open

https://flic.kr/p/2iYiqon

what do you think?

 

[Dan Daniel]

I think that I don't want people to really understand how nice the Xenar lens is so that they don't become cult cameras and double in price and become fashion accessories....

 

[BrianShaw]

Shhhhh...

 

[GRHazelton]

Tessar formula lenses rule! Love my Minolta Autocord!

 

[papagene]

I have a Rolleicord V and the lens is sweet... but sssshhh, I didn't say that!

 

[Down Under]

Good one. I've been preaching this to anyone who will listen, for the last two years, since buying a user-quality Vb with pristine lenses from a deceased estate for A$95...

Now I feel vindicated (autocorrect on my laptop just changed this word to "vindicted" which gives my intent an entirely different meaning, ha!). I've just bought two small-exposure kits, one for 16 and the other for 24 images on 120, for this camera. An added bliss-benefit of these small kits is they work off the center of the lens, and produce the most incredibly sharp images.

But yes, I'll say no more. Or Rolleicord prices will go through the roof, as has happened with almost every other Rollei TLR in the last few years.

Shhh!! indeed. Zipper activated on mouth.

 

[Dan Daniel]

I've just bought two small-exposure kits, one for 16 and the other for 24 images on 120, for this camera. An added bliss-benefit of these small kits is they work off the center of the lens, and produce the most incredibly sharp images.

I loved the 16 exposure setup with a Rolleicord Va. One of the nicest light knapsack 6x4.5 setups out there. I found it very easy to focus and then use the sports finder if I wanted a portrait format shot, but did appreciate that the default framing is landscape, unlike many other 6x4.5 cameras. The Vb allows for a prism, but that really throws off the balance and portability.

To respond to the OP, thank you for the resolution test. Very good sample. And I find it shows the Xenar lens as I find it- sharp, very sharp, but also 'gentle'?? I know, getting into squishy weird lens language here. The center being that crisp wide open is impressive. I usually shoot Tessar-type lenses at f/8-11, but I need to spend more time wide open it looks like. I wonder if a Tessar or Autocord Rokkor will be as crisp?

 

[Dali]

Waste of time.

 

[grain elevator]

Hmm I thought it was to be expected that it's sharp in the very center, away from center things get interesting.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

I've had different Cords and still have 2 Vb's. Lovely lens, lovely camera....but wide (and almost wide) open I really prefer the six element planar of my flexes.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Hi Friends,

Today i did a Resolution Test with my new Rolleicord Vb, the Image was shot handheld @f4, 1/250s on Retro 80s Film, this Lens is definitively razor sharp wide open or near wide open

https://flic.kr/p/2iYiqon

what do you think?

I think you are very imaginative.

 

[Paul Howell]

When I opened your post I was expecting a resolution test using a chart, or even a pattern like a brick wall, tested wide to stopped down, using a tripod. Your scans look good, but does tell me much about actual resolution. Not sure what the resolution for Retro 80 is, Tmax 100 is 200 LPM, what is Retro 80?

 

[Ian Grant]

I use a few TLR's, I keep a Yashicamat 124 in Turkey and the Yashinon lens is very good, however the Opton Tessar on my Rolleiflex Automat MX is even better but the f3.5 Xenotar on my Rolleiflex E2 is best of all, followed closely by the Ross Xpres on my MPP Microcord (a legal Rolleicord clone).

The issues are that at f4 the lenses have shallow depth of field, lens resolution charts are a flat field subject most real life images aren't. If I did side by side comparisons I'm sure they'd mirror my comments, what I have found is as you stop down edge and corner sharpness is maybe a stop better with the Xenotar and Xpres at f5.6 and f8 by f11and f16 there's much of a muchness, they are all good.

One comment about the Yashinon is more about the cameras than the lenses and internal flare off the black paint, paints do age some people cure the issue by adding flocking, I've had flare with my Yashicamat 124 in quite innocuous conditions, not a bright sunny day quite the opposite, a damp dull day brightening up. If the slight internal camera flare issue was sorted it would be as good as a Tessar/Xenar, but it's also rarely causes issue (maybe twice in 14 years)

Ian.

 

[Paul Howell]

I thinking about flocking my 124 and D, I've seen kits, never flocked a camera before, dont know if I should risk messing it all up.

 

[Dragan Bojovic]

Dear Paul,

TESTCHARTS (i hate them)
Test Charts are exactly what a lens Test should not be! Test Charts are guilty for todays boring lenses like sigma "art" or the new overcorrected nikon z lenses. lens manufacturers are producing lenses which will be rated good on a review site which uses a flat Test Target.
The Reality is not Flat, on a Testchart the Xenar would be mushy in the corner, in my Test you can see the lens is sharp nearly edge to edge at f4! The sharp line of a good classic lens is curved on some extreme like on the zeiss 28 f2 on some less like planar 50 1.4.

I USE OPTIMUM F-STOP / NO NEED TO STOP DOWN FOR MY PHOTOGRAPHY
Lenses with character and good sharpness and contrast like af-d 50 1.8 / or legendary 35mm f2 plastic nikkor the voigtländer 58 1.4 zeiss otus, distagon .....should not be used at an fstop higher then 5.6, only then they will show what i call dimensionality and character.

FILM RESOLUTION ? DO YOU HAVE A CORRECT WORKING CAMERA? NAILING THE FOCUS
The Retro 80s (repacked aerial negative high resolution film) has about 130 lpmm like tmax, 200 lpmm is fantasy for tmax the contrast at this resolution is to low.... the sharpness of film comes into play when 1. the focusing is working exactly 2. you are using a fast enough shutter speed for handheld shooting 3. the film sits flat in the camera 4. the shutter/mirror itself is not vibrating to much 5. the lens elements are aligned per specification 6. there is no fog inside the lens 7.the lens coating is intact 8. the subject is contrasty enough 9. you have a lensshade......... everybody is talking about lpmm but it is more important to have a fully functioning camera, the old cameras are often not in fully working condition and need a calibration, i had over 1000 different cameras in my hands the last 6 years! i build half dozen cameras myself up to 11x14, i am fanatic 8 of 10 where not aligned per specification and i was about to give up film photography! what i was searching was the famaous sharpness everybody is talking about in film photography. finaly i have learned to fix my cameras calibrate the focus have learned how to put the resolution on film! it is true film is amazingly sharp and can compete with the best digital cameras but only when !! after you have a perfect working camera, you know how to focus, AND you nail the focus on the point which is important for the composition. the last thing is the most complicated, on a digital mirrorless you can zoom in at 100% focus take the shot with a stabilised sensor and the image is there, try to focus that exact on a Rolleicord no chance, when i see a good composition i will set the camera on tripod and will make 5 shots focus bracketing with film 1 image will be perfect all the other are junk why ? the really sharp point in a image is theoreticaly as small as an atom! everything else is bokeh!

I think the only way to compare Lens Quality and rank lenses is to watch a projected bw slide film of a nice real life subject on a wall 2x3 meters with a top slide projector. not a Testchart

Dragan

 

[Dragan Bojovic]

sorry for my bad english i have learned the language watching clint eastwood and stalone movies

 

[JPD]

I thought I had stopped buying Rollei TLR's but now I might rethink that. I owned a Rolleicord V for a short while, and the Xenar was at least as good as the Tessar on my Rolleiflex 3,5 B. However, I already had a Rolleicord III and IV with not so good Xenars. It must have been sample variation or mismatched components. But others had much better luck and were amazed by their III and IV Rolleicords. The Xenars on my Retinas and even the front element focusing pre-war Balda Baldina, are really good.

Dragan, I agree that what people call "perfect" lenses often are too clinical and boring. I can feel that with the Planar on Rolleis. The Planar and Xenotar are superb lenses, but the Tessar, Xenar and Triotar are also amazing lenses and have a different "feel" to them that I like. Experimenting with cameras and lenses is a fun hobby, and it's a matter of taste what you find works and feels best for you.

 

[Paul Howell]

Your right for the most part test charts have limited value, Tmax 100 resolves 200 LPMM, most modern lens easily resolve 200 LPMM, in decades past it was not uncommon for a good telephoto not resolve better that 100 or 120 LPMM. Must be 10 years ago, I used my last roll of micro film, shot all my 50mms, Minolta, Konica, Miranda, Yashica, Pentax K and screw mount, all could resolve 200 LPMM. In the real world, all are good shooters. But in my of thinking a resolution test means testing for actual resolution. Nothing wrong with a feild test, tells you how your camera and lens works in an actual session. Your Rolli is a fine camera

 

[Dali]

OK, so the Xenar lens of you Rolleicord gives you "sharp" pictures. So, what is the point or the conclusion for us, mere photographers using 'unterlenses"?

I got a Rolleicord V for several years but I sold it, I don't worship cameras, I have better to do. A good camera, no doubt, but too"serious" for my idea of photography.

 

[MattKing]

sorry for my bad english i have learned the language watching clint eastwood and stalone movies

You should run for President of the USA!

 

[Neil Grant]

One comment about the Yashinon is more about the cameras than the lenses and internal flare off the black paint, paints do age some people cure the issue by adding flocking, I've had flare with my Yashicamat 124 in quite innocuous conditions, not a bright sunny day quite the opposite, a damp dull day brightening up. If the slight internal camera flare issue was sorted it would be as good as a Tessar/Xenar, but it's also rarely causes issue (maybe twice in 14 years)

Ian.[/QUOTE]
...camera bodies add flare light to the film all the time - manifesting itself as a lack of contrast in the shadows. Photographers become inadvertently attuned to this, perhaps only really guessing that a camera body can cause problems when a localised reflection is cast onto the film rather than 'global' light spillage. Many budget TLR's had only rudimentary gloss paint coverings for the film chamber and users have often reported improvements with diy addition of 'flocking' materials to 'mop up' stray light. In contrast, a Professional Mamiya TLR has a well baffled film chamber - it's like that for a good reason. It makes a difference.

 

[ic-racer]

I think it is a good idea to test the equipment to see that it performs as intended. In the case of the original poster, the camera performed to his expectations.
When I got my Rolleicord V, the first images were to low contrast for me, so I disassembled the lens and cleaned the surfaces. Subsequent test showed a marked improvement in contrast.

 

[Ian Grant]

One comment about the Yashinon is more about the cameras than the lenses and internal flare off the black paint, paints do age some people cure the issue by adding flocking, I've had flare with my Yashicamat 124 in quite innocuous conditions, not a bright sunny day quite the opposite, a damp dull day brightening up. If the slight internal camera flare issue was sorted it would be as good as a Tessar/Xenar, but it's also rarely causes issue (maybe twice in 14 years)

Ian.

...camera bodies add flare light to the film all the time - manifesting itself as a lack of contrast in the shadows. Photographers become inadvertently attuned to this, perhaps only really guessing that a camera body can cause problems when a localised reflection is cast onto the film rather than 'global' light spillage. Many budget TLR's had only rudimentary gloss paint coverings for the film chamber and users have often reported improvements with diy addition of 'flocking' materials to 'mop up' stray light. In contrast, a Professional Mamiya TLR has a well baffled film chamber - it's like that for a good reason. It makes a difference.[/QUOTE]

Yes I had a pair of Mamiya's a C33 and a C3 fornearly a decade until they were stolen, excellent cameras and lenses but heavy compared to Rolleicord and Rolleiflex cameras. Of the better TLRs it's only Yashica that seem to have this issue. and it seems to get worse with age, and some paints definitely age far worse than others. I could add focking, or I have some excellent very non reflective Mars black paint, but in honesty I only use the Yashicamat a few times every year, actually the focus frame has a twist, doesn't faffect image making but means it'll wear out quickly. When I had theh sticky shutter serviced just over 12 years ago the repairman point it out, he could repair it but it was atime comsuthe cost was more than gettting a better.

Ian

 

[Randy Stewart]

"Tessar formula lenses rule! Love my Minolta Autocord"

Some years ago, I had an opportunity to do a lens chart resolution test series on a number of TLRs with Tessar-type lenses. The Rolleicord Xenar optically matched the
Rolleiflex T (Tessar), both having a bit less resolution than either of the Autocords in the test. That is consistent with reputation. The Ricoh Diacord was nearly as good. The Yashinon in a like-new Yashica 124G was dismal at best.

The original poster claims his Rolleicord/Xenar is at its best near wide open. Not true for any Tessar lens. A Tessar 75mm will open to 3.5, at which it should be used as a last resort, being about 1/3 as sharp as its best. It's best is about 8.0 (and that is razor sharp) and very good to +/- one stop, things drop off fast outside that 2 - 3 stop window.

 

[NB23]

Each Rolleiflex is a unique character. I Love them ALL!