Rollei Infrared ISO 200/400. Whaaaaaaat?

[pentaxuser]

On an observational note of humor if I may... This is the only site I've ever seen where the word "confection" is used. Understandable, because people from all over the world post, and the English used in their country varies. In the US, the word would be "manufacture", whereas "confection" is regarded as the making of candy, treats, and sweet pastries. Such as confectioners' sugar, which is the powdered sugar on a Little Debbie doughnut.

I thought that was what it meant as well until I saw the Photrio word. Whenever I see it I still imagine the likes of Ilford making its films edible and tasty

pentaxuser

 

[MCB18]

As for Kodak to make HEI again, I hardly expect that. But all these "near infrared" films all seem to start off at 720 and drop off to nothing after that. I'm not asking for HEI like the good old days. but certainly they must have a smaller coating machine in the building, where they can take some of the emulsion mixture for Tri-X and put a little of their magic dye in it to stretch it out to 800 maybe. We're not asking for thermal photography in laboratory study. Oh, well. Das macht nichts.

Unfortunately it’s a bit more complicated than just putting a little dye in the emulsion, I wish it were that simple… for context, SFX is only manufactured on demand due to the complexity of the emulsion, it’s simply not worth making more than they need and storing it. I believe that this is the only film Harmon does this way, including Phoenix…

 

[lamerko]

I'm not sure if it's a custom order. As far back as I can remember, there has always been stock of SFX in 135 and 120 format. At the same time, it is cheaper than Delta...

 

[Sirius Glass]

Yes, SFX is still made in 120. Rollei 400 IR is different stock, and has more IR sensitivity than SFX... and finger grain, imo...
Sadly, HIE ain't gonna happen.

I agree on all three points. HIE was considered a national asset and therefore the Defense Department for decades paid to keep the HIE assembly line running. Once DoD decided to withdraw its support, there was no commercial support needed to maintain a complex manufacturing process.

 

[MCB18]

I'm not sure if it's a custom order. As far back as I can remember, there has always been stock of SFX in 135 and 120 format. At the same time, it is cheaper than Delta...

It’s a large quantity order, so places like B&H will buy a master roll and Harmon will make it.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I thought that was what it meant as well until I saw the Photrio word. Whenever I see it I still imagine the likes of Ilford making its films edible and tasty

pentaxuser

The late PE [Photo Engineer] who worked on film R&D at Kodak including Kodachrome and Ektachrome used the word confection to refer to the small adjustment made to tweak the film performance.

 

[koraks]

German (Deutsche sprache)

*Sprache. Note the capital.

Homonyms occur to the best of my knowledge in all languages.

Definition of HOMONYM

homophone; homograph; one of two or more words spelled and pronounced alike but different in meaning (such as the noun quail and the verb quail)… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

As to confectioning:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/confection
leads to:

Definition of CONFECTING

to put together from varied material; prepare; preserve… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

to put together from varied material

 

[koraks]

The late PE [Photo Engineer] who worked on film R&D at Kodak including Kodachrome and Ektachrome used the word confection to refer to the small adjustment made to tweak the film performance.

I don't think so.

Uh oh!!! another 120 film with possible backing paper issues and its not kodak

I've had a similar problem with Rollei Superpan 200 -- perhaps the same manufacturer (confectioned by Rollei)? 120 in a Rolleiflex; the film was purchased in the plastic film tube and IIRC the film was in foil inside. Nonetheless, the film/backing paper interacted in some manner to cause the...

www.photrio.com

European film and paper manufacturers often call slitting, chopping and packaging, "confectioning".

PE

The above appears to be the only instance in which he mentioned it (apart from one more quote, not his own words).

Search results for query: confectioning

www.photrio.com

You may be thinking of a different term he used for the activities you describe; if I were to hazard a guess: "trimming".

Search results for query: trimming

www.photrio.com

 

[MattKing]

Confectioning/finishing is not the actual manufacture of the film, that is a separate step. First the film is coated in giant rolls about 54-60” wide, and several thousand feet long. That is the actual manufacturing step.

Confectioning/finishing involves slitting the roll into many “pancakes” that are the correct width for the format being made, perforating (if needed) and then cutting to length and rolling in a cassette, on a spool, into backing paper, onto a core, or run through a sheet cutter and notched. Then it’s put in its final retail packaging. I think generally it’s called confectioning in the UK/EU and finishing in US/CN.

Edit: out of curiosity I looked it up, the definition of confect is “to put together from varied material, prepare, preserve”, and it seems to have widespread use in manufacturing as a synonym for the final preparations to pack a product, and the packing process itself. So not just something that’s exclusive to film.

"Confection" seems to be the term that Harman/Ilford use.
Eastman Kodak doesn't use it - they use "finish".
I have no idea what other "confectioners/finishers" might use.

 

[MattKing]

As for Kodak to make HEI again, I hardly expect that. But all these "near infrared" films all seem to start off at 720 and drop off to nothing after that. I'm not asking for HEI like the good old days. but certainly they must have a smaller coating machine in the building, where they can take some of the emulsion mixture for Tri-X and put a little of their magic dye in it to stretch it out to 800 maybe. We're not asking for thermal photography in laboratory study.

One of the main reasons HIE would be such a challenge is that the modern manufacturing line uses a fair bit of IR based tools for quality control - all of which would fog HIE.
In other words, they would have to set up an additional (and different) production line, with all the costs and capital tie up that entails.
When HIE was current, Eastman Kodak had multiple lines, in multiple locations - both in the USA and other countries. A special line for a special product that a government bought high volumes of was practical.
Now, Eastman Kodak has a single line in one location in Rochester.

 

[koraks]

"Confection" seems to be the term that Harman/Ilford use.
Eastman Kodak doesn't use it - they use "finish".
I have no idea what other "confectioners/finishers" might use.

The reason why 'finish' is problematic in this context is that the term photofinishing refers to a different part of the value chain. I think that's probably why Harman steered clear of it. General cultural/linguistic considerations may also apply that on further analysis might relate to the industrial development of the UK, ties with mainland Europe and other industries etc. All very interesting if you're into it, I suppose.

 

[subtlelikeatrex]

Unfortunately it’s a bit more complicated than just putting a little dye in the emulsion, I wish it were that simple… for context, SFX is only manufactured on demand due to the complexity of the emulsion, it’s simply not worth making more than they need and storing it. I believe that this is the only film Harmon does this way, including Phoenix…

I was in my local shop over the weekend and their stock of SFX all expired in 2021 . That makes sense considering it’s not in constant production.

 

[MattKing]

I was in my local shop over the weekend and their stock of SFX all expired in 2021 . That makes sense considering it’s not in constant production.

That tells me that their customers don't buy it, so they leave it on the shelves and don't order more.
That is about 6 year old film.

 

[lamerko]

The fact that these films are outdated in some places does not mean that they are not being produced. Understandably, the demand is not very high. The last time I bought them was at the beginning of last year, they still have an expiration date until the end of 2025. Recently, a friend bought one - the expiration date is 2026.