Yup - seems that the big box stores want ALL the market - not just their share! Do you think if they actually put all the others out of business they'd still have such low prices?
Ritz Camera files Chapter 11
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Some time ago I wandered into the Ritz in the mall near here and asked about some black and white chemicals. The kid said "we don't carry any of that stuff but our Riverside store has lots of darkroom stuff".
Riverside is about 25 miles (or somewhere between half an hour or 45 minutes as we reckon distance here in Socal) so I jumped in the car and hurried on down. Found a few bags of chems and picked up some to purchase.
I asked the manager about neg pages and film clips. They were out and would'nt be getting more because "film is dead, you really should switch to digital"
Good riddance is all I can say.
Larry
Riverside is about 25 miles (or somewhere between half an hour or 45 minutes as we reckon distance here in Socal) so I jumped in the car and hurried on down. Found a few bags of chems and picked up some to purchase.
I asked the manager about neg pages and film clips. They were out and would'nt be getting more because "film is dead, you really should switch to digital"
Good riddance is all I can say.
Larry
Yes they will.
They research the best price point and then strong arm vendors to build to the price point. The world economy now means that if you can't get it for 9.99 from one company/country, another will be happy to oblige. The resulting product may be crap (as most are now), but they have yet to reach the point where the consumer revolts. As options disappear a revolt will not be feasible. When and if we want our widgets to last, the price disparity of the super giants buying power and the small vender willing to produce a good product will be too vast. If it isn't already.
The big boxes need to continue on this trajectory even if they become the only players. As they need growth (the share holders need to be fed), and to do this whilst real spending power drops means that products must also drop in price.
Stagnant wages, such as we've had for the last 10 years, are masked by the charade that we can buy more with our dollar.
Preaching to the choir here JD. The stagnant wages were also masked, particularly here and in the U.K., by easy credit and consequent massive individual debt growth.
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fwiw, we got darkroom stuff in at a smaller store i was at....we almost got shut down by the mall we were located in.
What, for having bagged chemicals and enlargers? Hardly "hazardous" in the form they are distributed. MAYBE, I could see them having a problem with liquid chemicals.
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it was some hc-110, some tmax developer, some stop and some fixer. The unfortunate fact is the corporation running the mall that our store was located in forbade us from selling any sort of chemistry. Now why we were allowed to run around with literally gallons of various c-41 and ra-4 chems, but not sell black and white is beyond me. Maybe the mall is in some way liable as well as the store if a kid buys and drinks it? Maybe they don't want people running around their mall with various chemicals? Who knows, but it wasn't up to us to decide.
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A couple of other things that contributed to Chapter 11: One was the constant push to sell things to the customer. When a camera or other piece of hardware was purchased the clerk (I mean "sales associate") was pressured verbally and with bonuses to sell extended warranties with the camera. Most customers didn't want it, but were asked to sign a statement saying that the clerk did his/her job and did in fact offer the extended warranty to them. The clerk and manager would make a percentage of the sale. Lots of customers said, "Look, I don't want it!"
Customers were asked to join the film developing club. This club cost $15.00. The customer then got "free" double prints or a free roll of film. Most customers took their film somewhere else where they not only received really free double prints/film, but didn't have to join a club.
If a customer was paying by check, Ritz required a drivers license, no problem there, but they also required the expiration date from a credit card. This use to bother a lot of people. Some folks don't have credit cards and they were not allowed to write a check to Ritz Camera even with a valid license.
Managment often dropped the ball. Ads were not put in local newspapers, items not received in shipments, etc.
Like I said before, Ritz did have good qualites as well and many things have contributed to Chapter 11.
Customers were asked to join the film developing club. This club cost $15.00. The customer then got "free" double prints or a free roll of film. Most customers took their film somewhere else where they not only received really free double prints/film, but didn't have to join a club.
If a customer was paying by check, Ritz required a drivers license, no problem there, but they also required the expiration date from a credit card. This use to bother a lot of people. Some folks don't have credit cards and they were not allowed to write a check to Ritz Camera even with a valid license.
Managment often dropped the ball. Ads were not put in local newspapers, items not received in shipments, etc.
Like I said before, Ritz did have good qualites as well and many things have contributed to Chapter 11.
Blame the "B Schools". They perpetrated a belief that you do a deal and you have to make sure you leave nothing on the table. and maximize each and every deal as if it was the last time you'd see these people. I was, for many years, a foreign exchange trader. I was taught you always made sure a deal was fair because unless it was a good deal for the other party because you wanted them around for the next deal.
A dictatorial management created the need for the associates to have customers sign refusals of extended warranties. The commission that sales associates were up for was presumed the incentive. They made the sale or they didn't. The only reason that they instituted customer refusal statements was that the lack of such a sale resulted in disciplinary repercussions for the associate by store management and for store management by corporate management. In the end the customer was less important than the sale. That was not true in the past.
It's not just retail that went this way - seems to be the way of this "brave new world." Served us soooo well hasn't it?
A dictatorial management created the need for the associates to have customers sign refusals of extended warranties. The commission that sales associates were up for was presumed the incentive. They made the sale or they didn't. The only reason that they instituted customer refusal statements was that the lack of such a sale resulted in disciplinary repercussions for the associate by store management and for store management by corporate management. In the end the customer was less important than the sale. That was not true in the past.
It's not just retail that went this way - seems to be the way of this "brave new world." Served us soooo well hasn't it?
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To be honest, the "screw the customer into the ground" approach is more typical of self-made entrepreneurs. Most business schools I have heard of preach that
a) acquisition costs mean that sales to first-time customers are seldom particularly profitable, and repeat business is essential
b) a sale which leads to a complaint is almost always unprofitable, and the complaint should as far as possible be resolved quickly and from the customer's point of view generously in order to avoid wasting staff time and to salvage goodwill in hopes that the customer will return for a profitable transaction.
My two cents:
I worked at Ritz Camera briefly back in 2002 and 2003. Not to stereotype, but I have never worked with a more incompetent group in my life. I won't bore you with all the details. But things I saw:
a)A sales associate yelling at a CUSTOMER regarding late prints on more than one occasion
b)Lab "technicians" printing extra photos they thought were funny, and posting them in the back or taking them with them
c)Holier-than-thou sales associates who would gladly proclaim that "only Ritz can afford me!" (I'm sadly not making this up)
d)Lab technicians being allowed to cut stacks of prints at once from paper to save time...often resulting in jagged edges and crooked prints
e)a manager who was fired after she ordered an employee to clock her in while she was on vacation
The extent of the lab's expertise was to look at each photo and make them as bright as possible (those were our instructions) and add random color.
The worst was my store manager who told me I couldn't quit, because I "owed" her for "taking a chance" on me by hiring me during the holiday season (I should mention I was living at college at the time).
I occasionally had digital prints done at Ritz over the years, the convenient location and $.19/print price as a member had its perks. But I was always less than satisfied with the quality of their film prints, even though they were usually quick and close. The local Wal-Mart, about 10 more minutes down the road, does a much better job. This broke my heart, because I wanted to continue to support any local film place I could.
I stopped patronizing their film because of the price and an experience I had last year. I was trying to get some prints done quick, and Wal-Mart said they were too backed up. So I went to Ritz, who said they'd definitely be ready by close (there were still three hours left before that). I went back about ten minutes before close, to find my prints still sitting in the same place as they were; the sales associates had closed down the Frontier an hour early because, get this, they got "too busy" and wanted to clean up so they wouldn't have to stay too long past close. So much for one hour photo. I have rarely dealt with more rude sales people in my life.
Needless to say, I never went back. I even considered buying a Canon 100-400L lens from them at one point, but it was $400 cheaper online. Can't say I'm going to miss Ritz, although I hate seeing places that process film go down.
I worked at Ritz Camera briefly back in 2002 and 2003. Not to stereotype, but I have never worked with a more incompetent group in my life. I won't bore you with all the details. But things I saw:
a)A sales associate yelling at a CUSTOMER regarding late prints on more than one occasion
b)Lab "technicians" printing extra photos they thought were funny, and posting them in the back or taking them with them
c)Holier-than-thou sales associates who would gladly proclaim that "only Ritz can afford me!" (I'm sadly not making this up)
d)Lab technicians being allowed to cut stacks of prints at once from paper to save time...often resulting in jagged edges and crooked prints
e)a manager who was fired after she ordered an employee to clock her in while she was on vacation
The extent of the lab's expertise was to look at each photo and make them as bright as possible (those were our instructions) and add random color.
The worst was my store manager who told me I couldn't quit, because I "owed" her for "taking a chance" on me by hiring me during the holiday season (I should mention I was living at college at the time).
I occasionally had digital prints done at Ritz over the years, the convenient location and $.19/print price as a member had its perks. But I was always less than satisfied with the quality of their film prints, even though they were usually quick and close. The local Wal-Mart, about 10 more minutes down the road, does a much better job. This broke my heart, because I wanted to continue to support any local film place I could.
I stopped patronizing their film because of the price and an experience I had last year. I was trying to get some prints done quick, and Wal-Mart said they were too backed up. So I went to Ritz, who said they'd definitely be ready by close (there were still three hours left before that). I went back about ten minutes before close, to find my prints still sitting in the same place as they were; the sales associates had closed down the Frontier an hour early because, get this, they got "too busy" and wanted to clean up so they wouldn't have to stay too long past close. So much for one hour photo. I have rarely dealt with more rude sales people in my life.
Needless to say, I never went back. I even considered buying a Canon 100-400L lens from them at one point, but it was $400 cheaper online. Can't say I'm going to miss Ritz, although I hate seeing places that process film go down.
And there I was feeling sorry for them
Bob H
Touche. There's a lot I left out though.
Schadenfreude!
Share your stories on the APUG anecdote instalment plan!
Share your stories on the APUG anecdote instalment plan!
Touche. There's a lot I left out though.
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Sounds about right. I worked between two different Ritz stores depending on if I was at college or not. At home, an ultra store.....with the exception of one individual, I worked with the nicest and most competent people I've ever met. We literally stocked everything in the catalog up to $5k. Special orders were made promptly, and we generally dealt directly with the warehouse ourselves instead of using the usual ritz express(you pay now, it shows up in a few days). When at school, at the mall store things like "yeah you can use your old fd lenses on that new eos body, they're both made by canon". "Oh yeah every nikon lens ever will work on that d40 you got(when it needs af-s lenses unless you want to manually focus)". "Something must be wrong with your xp-2 all the frames are blue instead of black and white"(the frontier really and truely has a black and white setting). "Oh we cant process that it says proffesional"(portra....or any other "pro" C-41 film).
A lot of what I'm seeing in this thread is both encouraging and discouraging - from the perspective of a camera store owner.
It's encouraging that so many of you do see the value in knowledgeable staff and courteous service - it is what we strive for everyday. Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, paying the kind of staff we want is difficult with the margins we make these days. To counteract that, we allow full schedule flexibility for our staff to maintain their shooting careers as well. This keeps them current and active in photography, and subsidizes their income. It also means we can be short-staffed at a moment's notice, but we deal with that.
As for Ritz, I can't help but smile somewhat. I know what this kind of thing does to the industry, but hopefully this can serve as a wake-up call. I would like to think that this will serve as a good object lesson in why margins need to be higher, but I agree with people here that it probably won't. What I would like to see is a reduction in chain expansion, especially into smaller markets. Will this happen? Who knows. But the big chains have started closing stores in smaller markets, so hopefully they won't just start opening them in others.
Finally, with regards to chains, there is another element which I see regularly and which discourages me to no end. For those people who are new to photography who purchase from a chain (whether a Best Buy type, or even a "photo chain" like Ritz or Henry's (Canada's version of Ritz)), too often they lose interest in photography because they aren't given a chance. They buy a camera (film or digital), don't know how to get past step A or B, and don't realize the potential they are missing because no one is willing and able to help them along. Unless they happen upon a better store, they think their Rebel kit set to portrait mode is all there is to photography, and they're lost, rather than becoming an enthusiastic hobbyist. This, more than anything I think, is costing the "true" camera stores. Photography as a true hobby has declined significantly over the last few years, which takes away the bread and butter of businesses like ours.
This, of course, is my experience. Others may have different ones. I do hope you support your local shops. They're what make hobbies fun.
Cheers all, and good luck to you.
Regards,
Andrew
It's encouraging that so many of you do see the value in knowledgeable staff and courteous service - it is what we strive for everyday. Unfortunately, as has been pointed out, paying the kind of staff we want is difficult with the margins we make these days. To counteract that, we allow full schedule flexibility for our staff to maintain their shooting careers as well. This keeps them current and active in photography, and subsidizes their income. It also means we can be short-staffed at a moment's notice, but we deal with that.
As for Ritz, I can't help but smile somewhat. I know what this kind of thing does to the industry, but hopefully this can serve as a wake-up call. I would like to think that this will serve as a good object lesson in why margins need to be higher, but I agree with people here that it probably won't. What I would like to see is a reduction in chain expansion, especially into smaller markets. Will this happen? Who knows. But the big chains have started closing stores in smaller markets, so hopefully they won't just start opening them in others.
Finally, with regards to chains, there is another element which I see regularly and which discourages me to no end. For those people who are new to photography who purchase from a chain (whether a Best Buy type, or even a "photo chain" like Ritz or Henry's (Canada's version of Ritz)), too often they lose interest in photography because they aren't given a chance. They buy a camera (film or digital), don't know how to get past step A or B, and don't realize the potential they are missing because no one is willing and able to help them along. Unless they happen upon a better store, they think their Rebel kit set to portrait mode is all there is to photography, and they're lost, rather than becoming an enthusiastic hobbyist. This, more than anything I think, is costing the "true" camera stores. Photography as a true hobby has declined significantly over the last few years, which takes away the bread and butter of businesses like ours.
This, of course, is my experience. Others may have different ones. I do hope you support your local shops. They're what make hobbies fun.
Cheers all, and good luck to you.
Regards,
Andrew
Andrew - you have it in a nutshell.
Have you also noted how an increasing number of people buy their equipment in the big box store - and then come to you with the problems - because they can't get help in the store where they bought it?
I do hope the big boxes leave the smaller markets, but of course, that means that the larger markets will have only big boxes. The other issue I have is that when the box stores move into an area they demand, and get, tax abatements.
You gotta love the level playing field!
Keep at it Andrew - we're with you!
Bob H
Have you also noted how an increasing number of people buy their equipment in the big box store - and then come to you with the problems - because they can't get help in the store where they bought it?
I do hope the big boxes leave the smaller markets, but of course, that means that the larger markets will have only big boxes. The other issue I have is that when the box stores move into an area they demand, and get, tax abatements.
You gotta love the level playing field!
Keep at it Andrew - we're with you!
Bob H
Andrew-- I'd be very surprised if we didn't see a lot of chain expansion curtailed--especially in unproven markets. Good for you for figuring out how to make your positions attractive by offering flexibility as a benefit. There's nothing worse than dealing with an unhappy employee--it drives buyers straight to online sales. Brick and mortar stores sometimes forget they're selling a value-added service and one size doesn't fit all. I like stores that are responsive to their customer's needs by stocking more difficult to find items. If you only stock a subset of Best Buy's merchandise--you're trying to compete with them. I also like camera stores that stock plenty of used equipment. It allows for trades, finding non-mainstream items and the markup is better than on new equipment.
At the mall in Toledo, the manager of the Ritz is named Ted. He is a very competent fellow fluent in camera-speak who can wax poetic about an old Nikon manual camera between sales of digital gear to newbies. He also hires folk who know and remember fondly the old days.
More importantly, however, he has the knack of attracting new photographers and keeping them interested in the hobby. He takes time and explains his merchandise patiently and thoroughly to potential buyers.
But he's not through with them after they buy.
I saw him last Saturday morning as he was wheeling a cart with gear through the food court. He told me that he was going to conduct the first of four classes he offers to purchasers of a camera. Later, after a couple hours, I saw him heading back. He told me there were 18 persons in the class at a mall meeting room.
He offers the series of four classes to non-buyers, too, for $50, which is a good deal, I think.
In any case, how many camera stores offer such a class? Sounds like a win-win situation to me.
Oh, yes, he also prides himself on his and his staff's ability to turn out top-notch prints for those of us who still use film.
More importantly, however, he has the knack of attracting new photographers and keeping them interested in the hobby. He takes time and explains his merchandise patiently and thoroughly to potential buyers.
But he's not through with them after they buy.
I saw him last Saturday morning as he was wheeling a cart with gear through the food court. He told me that he was going to conduct the first of four classes he offers to purchasers of a camera. Later, after a couple hours, I saw him heading back. He told me there were 18 persons in the class at a mall meeting room.
He offers the series of four classes to non-buyers, too, for $50, which is a good deal, I think.
In any case, how many camera stores offer such a class? Sounds like a win-win situation to me.
Oh, yes, he also prides himself on his and his staff's ability to turn out top-notch prints for those of us who still use film.
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I appreciate your support Bob - I'm certainly trying to do my best.
And yes, every day we have people asking us to help them with products they bought elsewhere. I've even had people (yes, more than one!) tell me that they want to support us too, so they'll make sure to come to us with their questions "even if" they buy their equipment elsewhere.
Normally, I try to look at these circumstances as opportunities to earn their loyalty, but too often the support comes first, only to have them order online to save $30.00 or what have you.
But we continue to do business as we have, and we will continue to treat everyone with respect. When that stops working, it won't be worth being in business anyway. I'm certainly not in it to get rich!
Cheers,
Andrew
Just sometimes it seems like everyone has a right to make a living - except you!
Call me a cynic - but I think if you were in it to get rich, you'd have to toss out your integrity.Cheers.
Bob H
Do you have an organized way to help people along, like with instructional advice or classes? Last year, for example, my mother bought a new Mac laptop. She's one of the least technically sophisticated people I know, but when she got the new computer, Apple offered weekly in-store training sessions (for a nominal additional fee, of course), and they were very helpful to her in getting used to basic tasks like using the mail program and the browser. It's true that Apple has buckets of cash and a high-margin product, but they wouldn't do it if it didn't make money for them somehow. I wonder if you couldn't offer something like that to people who bought cameras, even if you had to charge a little extra for it--customers liking their cameras better and coming into the store regularly may buy more stuff for them. And it's certainly something that bottom-feeder retailers and online shops wouldn't do.
Moopheus,
Thank you for your question. We do, in fact, do everything that you mention, We run classes of various kinds, including basic photography and composition, digital slr courses, lighting, shoot + critique (these are great - our staff goes shooting with the group, offering help, advice, showing them different gear etc, and follow up the next week with a critique of the groups 8x10 or larger prints from the shoot - a good time!) and more.
We also offer full support - we do free house calls for those who need it, whether it's to set up a new printer, figure out how to light their studio, etc. I spent two hours last week helping a gentleman learn how to organize and file his images on his computer. It had nothing to do with anything we sold him, and it cost him nothing, but he'll remember us the next time he needs something (I hope!).
Moreover, we will spend as long as we need to in store to not only teach our customers how to use their gear, but we're happy to help them improve their images as well. Personally, that's my favourite part of the job. It's amazing how few images we see coming from the gear we sell (excluding what gets printed in our lab, but that is private material - we can't critique it if we're not asked to!).
And yet, despite all we do, people still go elsewhere to save a buck (and we even match prices, so we can't be accused of being "expensive"). But as long as I can feed my family I'll stick to my way of doing things. Thankfully my staff all feel the same way.
Cheers all,
Andrew
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