• Welcome to Photrio!
    Registration is fast and free. Join today to unlock search, see fewer ads, and access all forum features.
    Click here to sign up

residue on non-emulsion-side of film

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
201,976
Messages
2,833,147
Members
101,041
Latest member
Geo58
Recent bookmarks
0

pdeeh

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
4,770
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
I developed a roll of 36exp Adox CHS 50 (135) last night, using Adonal APH09 at 1:50 (11 minutes at 20C). I made up the developer with tap water.

I also developed two other rolls of 135 (Tri-X and PolypanF) in the same session, using the same regime as described below, varying only the developer and development times.

My normal routine is as follows, and consistently produces clean, unmarked negatives, perfectly suitable for digitisation or enlarging: Paterson tank+spiral, no prewet, initial 30s agitation + 5s agitation per min; 30 secs tap water stop with 3 changes of water; 4 minute fix in Ilford rapid with initial 30s agitiation + 15s every minute; ilford wash regime of 5,10,20,20, then brief wash with filtered water, then final rinse in deionised water + drop Ilfotol; hang to dry in initially humid bathroom overnight.

The Tri-X and Polypan were (are) fine.

The Adox (Efke) however shows a fine spotty residue all over the non-emulsion side, the entire length of the roll; if it had been sprayed with some sticky substance such as sugar syrup, it would look like it does.
(I don't use any aerosol or other sprays in my house, not indeed sugar-syrup)

Using a 10x loupe, as far as I can ascertain the residue spots are an orangey-purple, perhaps plum-coloured, but they seem only to be on the non-emulsion side. They feel slightly hard to a fingernail and can be scratched off.

What I find most peculiar is that even examined with the 10x loupe, I cannot see any of this same residue on the emulsion side.

Although I have only scanned one strip of negatives, it's clear they are pretty much unusable either for digitisation or enlarging as they stand.

My guess (prompted by the colour of the residue) is that the APH09 (which I have had open and used regularly for about 14 months, and is now "coke coloured" ) has some crystals or other precipitate which has not dissolved when diluted and that this is what has caused the residue. It does not explain how it comes to be only on one side of the roll, however, and I have used it within the last week to develop a different brand of film without incident.

I've soaked a strip of negatives in deionised water for 10 minuties with some agitation, and given it a final rinse including a drop of Ilfotol, and so far as I can see on the wet negative much of the residue has gone. I will examine it properly again when it has had time to dry fully.

I am wondering how much re-washing I can undertake (I was thinking about, say, 30 minutes @ 20C with some agitation, for the remainder of the roll) without too high a risk of damage to the emulsion, which I know from past experience can be delicate.

If rewashing doesn't work, wiping off with "Pec pads" springs to mind, and I have some Isopropanol to hand with which I could moisten a microfibre cloth for wiping (though I believe one has to be careful not to contact the emulsion with it?)

Any other suggestions?
 

AgX

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,972
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
I see no cause for that residue not to show up on the emulsion side, nor on the other films, nor on the tank.

Are you sure not to have seen that residue on the unprocessed film?
You having processed that lot yesterday, I guess you still have the cut off leader of that Efke film in some bin. Have a look at it.
 
OP
OP
pdeeh

pdeeh

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
4,770
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
Ah AgX, of course that is the most obvious thing to have checked, and I overlooked it ...

Well, the leader is gone, but I did still have the cassette with a cm or so of film still on the core ... and the "goo" is on the back (or at least, raised spots of the same size are visible in the blue backing layer) but not in the emulsion.

So now we know it is the film and not of my process or chemistry.

Unfortunately, of course, I am still left with the spots, and I have several more (unexposed) rolls with the same batch number. No wonder there were mixed feelings about Efke's demise as a manufacturer of pictorial film.

The strip I rewashed is now dry, and is just as spotty as it was ... so I tried wiping it down with a microfibre cloth dampened with isopropanol - makes no difference at all .
 
OP
OP
pdeeh

pdeeh

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
4,770
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
Adox CHS 50 base faults

just to finish things off, I think I was deluding myself that it could be "scratched off with a fingernail" ... here are a couple of photographs of examples of the offending pox; I think when i thought they were "pinkish" it was simply refraction. any colour in these photos can be safely ignored as lighting artifacts.

It's clear these are faults in the surface of the PET base, and I can do nothing about them. Oh well ... Buy Ilford, Buy Kodak, Buy Fuji will be my future mantra
 

Attachments

  • 20131025-1.jpg
    20131025-1.jpg
    476.3 KB · Views: 103
  • 20131025-2.jpg
    20131025-2.jpg
    187.3 KB · Views: 99

AgX

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,972
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
You said those Particles were sticky. Is that still true?
 
OP
OP
pdeeh

pdeeh

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
4,770
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
no i think that was a cognitive error on my part; I jumped to the conclusion that it was some sort of residue, which influenced me to imagine they felt sticky.
I should have investigated more thoroughly and slept on my conclusions before rushing into posting. mea culpa ...
 

AgX

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,972
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
At Efke they either used some totally inadequate base from the beginning (hard to believe though), or sometime during coating, maybe during the preparation stage, the base got heated up and dirt got stuck to it.
 
OP
OP
pdeeh

pdeeh

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Messages
4,770
Location
UK
Format
Multi Format
I think that this batch was from one of the final production runs, and judging by the descriptions I have read of how dilapidated the manufacturing facility had become in it's latter stages, it is a little surprising they managed to produce anything at all. There are some curious ripples as well across parts of the base material as well.
 

cmacd123

Subscriber
Allowing Ads
Joined
May 24, 2007
Messages
4,331
Location
Stittsville, Ontario
Format
35mm
EFKE did use a purplish Anti-haltion coat on all the films, (most firms only use it on 120) it normaly comes off in the processing. (using rodinal with those films the developer comes out of the tank a dark purple shade.)

perhaps a few moments in a solution like developer, fallowed by a short fix and a re-wash will dissolve the rest. It might have been thinker in some spots due to a coasting defect?
 

AgX

Member
Allowing Ads
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
29,972
Location
Germany
Format
Multi Format
Yes, a faulty antihalation coating is more likely. Though, would that explain those ripples too?
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom