I'd have to say, Ilford has a pretty impressive B&W range of film. I don't shoot much B&W, mostly color, but I generally do shoot Ilford when it's B&W (the exception is in the IR film, where I typically shoot the Rollei IR400s).
Let's take a look at what you can get in the Ilford/Harman line from B&H (I'm only looking at 35mm here, since that's what I primarily shoot), traditional grain films first:
ISO 50 - Pan F
ISO 100 - Kentmere 100
ISO 125 - FP4+
ISO 200 - SFX
ISO 400 - Kentmere 400
ISO 400 - HP5+
In the T-grain type 35mm films, we have:
ISO 100 - Delta 100
ISO 400 - Delta 400
ISO 3200 - Delta 3200 (note this film has a true speed of 1000, but low contrast so it looks good when pushed to 3200).
And finally in the chromogenic films:
ISO 400 - XP2 Super
So Ilford/Harman has an offering for B&W film in box speeds ranging from 50 to 3200, including 2 100-speed films and 4 400-speed films. Contrast this with Kodak B&W emulsions, also available from B&H:
Traditional - 400TX
T-Grain - TMax 100
T-Grain - TMax 400
Chromogenic: BW400CN
And finally Fuji, available from B&H:
ISO 100 - Neopan Acros 100
ISO 400 - Neopan 400
So Ilford has 10 B&W films, Kodak has 4 B&W films, and Fuji has 2 B&W films. I dare say Harman is doing something right to be able to support that many B&W films! Would a true B&W IR film be a good thing to have? Sure, but not if it hurts Harman's ability to offer the impressive variety of film it already produces.
Nope. That Harmon is audio products. For example, Harmon/Kardon.
Dear Paul,
The world market for IR film is very, very small.
It would not be viable for us to produce one and we have capacity to make down to pretty small coated volumes if needed.
I have mentioned many times some of the complicated manufacturing issues around very low volume products that may be attractive to film users.
1 ) 35mm / 120 and Sheet film are typically produced on three different bases with three different
formulations.
2 ) You can produce small volume products ( and we do ) but when you are trying to get a return on your R&D investment and have to spread that over a very small volume it would make the cost per film prohibitive and you would sell less.
3 ) IR film has very poor keeping qualities compared to normal panchromatic emulsion types.
4 ) Making a true IR film would compromise sales of ILFORD SFX film, we have a policy of keeping all films currently made in production in all existing formats.
5 ) When making small volumes waste rises to a higher percentage of good coated stock.
Finally I noted somebody saying ' HARMAN may never introduce another film' well that is an opinion not based in fact, but of course its an opinion to which everyone is entitled....
We will look, and do look at new product opportunities on a monthly basis, in depth, and the team of 7people that discuss it have well in excess of 120 years experience in the photo market, balanced against our wish to innovate and satisfy customer requirements is to run a profitable and stable business that continues to focus on analog monochrome photographic products as its core market ( although we do other things ) and to offer and manufacture now, and in the future the largest range of ultra high quality monochrome photographic products in the world, bar none.
Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :
Stone,
I suspect that sheet film IR or near-IR (i.e. SFX 200) sales would be absolutely tiny and Harman would get into the usual difficulties of cost and wastage in production etc.
Tom
Yes! Very impressive. You could also add Ilford Pan 100 and Pan 400, available in some parts of the world and easily obtainable in the US. And to think that two of the films you list have been added within the last 10 years, no grass growing under Ilford/Harman's feet.
Maybe, but I think the LF'ers might consider the higher price to snag fresh 820ish IR... It doesn't interfere with the SFX and is only one base to deal with instead of 3 different ones, so it's a little more reasonable of a request.
EDIT: I'm talking 4x5 and 8x10 only (maybe 5x7). No extreme cutting sizes to start, just basics.
I'll wait to hear what Simon thinks.
I would like to say thank you to Simon and Ilford / Harman for listening to the customers, and caring enough to actually let us know why things may be doable or not.
I was somewhat concerned that I may be making a mistake by pressing forward with film, and building a darkroom - but I am fairly confident that as long as companies like Harman are around, we should expand our use of their products.
I also would also love to see Ilford produce a run of 220 and 127 every year, but would also like to see them spool up some 620 if that is within reason. Seems that it may only require the slightly different spool size for 620. If people can use their old favorites again, then I would think that would be additional film sales.
One thing we can ALL do, is encourage people to dust off their old film camera's and start shooting film again. Get people interested in the FUN side of photography again. And get them using Ilford products. The most important long term goal is that Ilford / Harman remain profitable. That is what will assure us of having the products we love.
So, Thank you Simon. And let the everyone know that the hard work and great products are truly appreciated.
Warmest Regards,
Blaine
it's currently being re-sold under some weird Asian name,
Hi Tom
Please read Simons post earlier.
And EK or KA receivers might want to sell IPR but who would want to buy?
Noel
I was thinking of the future not past.
The group EK or KA who own the IR film IPR arnt likely to sell it, if they fold the receiver would want to sell.
No one is going to buy...
Ilford would need to do R&D for a similar far IR film and have said no.
I understand there is not enough sales volume to be viable, it is StoneNY who envisaged you pay a premium $ for 4x5 sheets.
Why shouldn't it?... And again my proposal doesn't cut into the SFX film line because it doesn't exist in sheet form.
You are making an assumption there. That Asian film has nothing to do with Maco/Rollei. You should re-read your thread: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)
Why shouldn't it?
I mean, everybody's paying a premium for the grainy (and with poor keeping qualities) SFX just because of its (limited) IR sensitivity, not to use it as a normal panchromatic.
Why not axe that and offer a true IR emulsion? I doubt anyone would miss SFX.
I know that true IR is a different beast, and maybe the sensitizing dyes are really expensive and not easily available, and since Ilford doesn't have an in-house IR formula they'll have to R&D it from scratch, but I'm just saying that the argument about not introducing a true IR so as not to axe SFX is misguided.
If Simon had the time and patience (and also business clearance) to respond, does Ilford have an IR formula?
Have small test runs/prototypes been coated internally?
I.e., if Ilford wanted, could it axe the SFX and replace it with a true IR without huge R&D overhead?
I re-read the thread, the second post gives a link that specifically says the asian film Reropan 100 is maco film...
And another poster says maco will soon come out with some of their own.
What am I misunderstanding?
I agree personally. I think SFX is not very useful and people only use it because it's the only thing there and they should REPLACE it with a true IR film, and no one would complain. BUT ilford also made a promise not to discontinue any films, so they are sort of stuck on a promise thy made.
But personally I agree, get rid of SFX and bring in Ilford True IR.
My proposal is just to keep ilford from having to cancel a film, and I think once they see the demand for the true IR in sheet film, they will understand that they need to make it in roll film, but at least make it in sheet.
Eh, how about the Rollei/Maco IR film then? Isn't that still available?
I've got more Efke 820 frozen than I'll probably ever be able to use at this (no shooting in ages, even less darkroom time) rate...
A good emulsion on a LOUSY base. I remember it was "Estar AH" base, whatever that is.
Eh, how about the Rollei/Maco IR film then? Isn't that still available?
I've got more Efke 820 frozen than I'll probably ever be able to use at this (no shooting in ages, even less darkroom time) rate...
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