Replacing Ni-Cad batteries in an electronic flash

AndyH · Jun 28, 2020

I have a couple of old Bauer E 160 Ultrablitz electronic flashes that I'd like to restore to functionality. I love the compact size and the relatively high output, and they look great with many of my old film cameras. They have both hot shoe and PC to PC adaptability. Back in film days, they were my favorite units, and I always had one along in case of need.

The capacitors charge and the flashes work on AC power, but the batteries appear shot and won't hold a charge. Although I'm fairly handy with repairs and modifications, I've never attempted to replace rechargeable batteries in a flash unit.

I'd appreciate any advice on whether this is a reasonable thing to attempt, and on possible sources for replacement NiCads. It seems like it should be a relatively easy feat with a modicum of soldering skills and the ability to disassemble the case. Both of these units are in otherwise mint condition, and a quick test of exposure under AC power indicated that they were putting out pretty close to full power.

Any advice before I start the process? (I already know that I need to make sure the capacitor is fully discharged before opening it up)

Thanks in advance for any tips or thoughts!

Andy

Bill Burk · Jun 28, 2020

Yes by all means! Replace with NiMH batteries. Electronically I don’t know if they will overheat when you charge them. But if you can take them apart you can replace the batteries and give them a new life.

ic-racer · Jun 28, 2020

I put a LiPo in my flash:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/rollei-e36re-excell-battery-12v-rebuild.68173/

mgb74 · Jun 28, 2020

Do you know the form factor of the batteries built into the flash? Is the original chemistry Ni-cad? All the different battery chemistries have their own charge and discharge characteristics. If you're not sure about the circuitry, it might be best to stick with the same battery chemistry as the original.

For soldering, you generally want batteries with tabs.

wiltw · Jun 28, 2020

The other issue is that apparent C-size batteries (if that is what is inside) come in two versions...tabbed, or tabless. Often companies use tabless batteries and welded the connections...if you tried to get tabless batteries and SOLDER them, your soldering iron is likely to have insufficient heat capacity to achieve a soldered connection!

Chan Tran · Jun 28, 2020

You can use NiMH of the same size. The most difficult part isn't the soldering nor finding the batteries. It's about disassemble the battery pack and reassemble it.

AndyH · Jun 28, 2020

This looks fairly easy. Batteries are coded DEAC. Four cells in series. Now I just have to find them.
Andy

AgX · Jun 28, 2020

Bill Burk said:
Yes by all means! Replace with NiMH batteries.

Flashes of that generation have built-in batteries. Exchanging them for NiMh ones, if dimensions fit, means needing to exchang the charger too (which typically is also designed as feeder for mains operation).

Some sizes of NiCd batteries are still available, thus the flash can be left in original state.

By the way, that model was my very first electronic flash....

ic-racer · Jun 28, 2020

Too bad it is not 5 cells because I believe those button cells are not available. Stacks of 5 of those button cells can be duplicated with 5 AAA cells. Duplicating a stack of 4 will be difficult.
EDIT: possible source of the button cells here: http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/varta-button-cell-battery-cp300h-replaces-55630-55630-101-501 or complete stack of 4 here: http://www.batteriesinaflash.com/varta-4-cp300h-4-8-volt-300mah-nimh-memory-backup-battery-with-tabs

AndyH · Jun 28, 2020

AgX said:
By the way, that model was my very first electronic flash....

Mine too. Excellent output for the day. Beautiful finish, quite compact, and a fair number of shots per charge.

I'd love to get mine working for my Nikon F, Pentax Spotmatic, and Rolleiflex SLRs. Now I've just got to find the replacement cells. Soldering and installing them will be a piece of cake.

Andy

AndyH · Jun 28, 2020

ic-racer said:
Too bad it is not 5 cells because I believe those button cells are not available. Stacks of 5 of those button cells can be duplicated with 5 AAA cells. Duplicating a stack of 4 will be difficult.

View attachment 249312

I wonder whether I could simply unsolder one of those and reassemble the stack with four?

Andy

Chan Tran · Jun 28, 2020

AndyH said:
This looks fairly easy. Batteries are coded DEAC. Four cells in series. Now I just have to find them.
Andy

You have the dimensions of the cells?

ic-racer · Jun 28, 2020

AndyH said:
I wonder whether I could simply unsolder one of those and reassemble the stack with four?

Andy

That is the one made of 5 AAA cells, but look back at the post #9, I think I found the flat cells you need already welded together and updated the post.

AndyH · Jun 28, 2020

Chan Tran said:
You have the dimensions of the cells?

They are 25mm in OD. The stack of four is 37mm deep. I haven't unsoldered them yet, so I can't see the voltage markings.

Andy

mrosenlof · Jun 28, 2020

both NiCd and NiMH are nominally 1.2 volts per cell, fwiw

RalphLambrecht · Jun 29, 2020

AndyH said:
I have a couple of old Bauer E 160 Ultrablitz electronic flashes that I'd like to restore to functionality. I love the compact size and the relatively high output, and they look great with many of my old film cameras. They have both hot shoe and PC to PC adaptability. Back in film days, they were my favorite units, and I always had one along in case of need.

The capacitors charge and the flashes work on AC power, but the batteries appear shot and won't hold a charge. Although I'm fairly handy with repairs and modifications, I've never attempted to replace rechargeable batteries in a flash unit.

I'd appreciate any advice on whether this is a reasonable thing to attempt, and on possible sources for replacement NiCads. It seems like it should be a relatively easy feat with a modicum of soldering skills and the ability to disassemble the case. Both of these units are in otherwise mint condition, and a quick test of exposure under AC power indicated that they were putting out pretty close to full power.

Any advice before I start the process? (I already know that I need to make sure the capacitor is fully discharged before opening it up)

Thanks in advance for any tips or thoughts!

Andy

replacement batteries are fairly easy to get. To make the soldering and job easier get the ones that have soldering tabs already attached.

AgX · Jun 29, 2020

mrosenlof said:
both NiCd and NiMH are nominally 1.2 volts per cell, fwiw

Yes, but as indicated, the original charger would not work (good) with NiCd cells. As these often are built in. you then got a charger issue.

AgX · Jun 29, 2020

RalphLambrecht said:
replacement batteries are fairly easy to get.

Not to my understanding. Sales of NiCd cells are restricted in the EU . Over here at first sight I only can get few large cells for special purposes, oll of them 1.2V, which in the best case would fit. However the OP even needs Nicd button-cells to make a stack from.

I did not look internationally yet.

Chan Tran · Jun 29, 2020

AndyH said:
They are 25mm in OD. The stack of four is 37mm deep. I haven't unsoldered them yet, so I can't see the voltage markings.

Andy

Look like this one would do
https://www.batteryspace.com/prod-specs/1234-MH-320BC.pdf

AgX · Jun 29, 2020

As indicated above, the OP needs NiCd cells, not NiMh.

Chan Tran · Jun 29, 2020

AgX said:
As indicated above, the OP needs NiCd cells, not NiMh.

As I said earlier NiMH works just fine in place of NiCad. NiMH tends to hold more charge and has less memory effect. They do have less current capacity but that would make the flash recycle a bit slower only if any.

AgX · Jun 29, 2020

They work just fine, but need different charging and thus chargers. This is a problem when the cells are built-in as in the OP's case.
Or do you charge your NiMh cells with the old chargers intended for the NiCd cells?

Bill Burk · Jun 29, 2020

Good luck. Consensus is use Nicad . I would keep detailed instructions to disassemble/ reassemble because you will have to do it again

Arvee · Jun 29, 2020

AgX said: Or do you charge your NiMh cells with the old chargers intended for the NiCd cells?

I have several chargers for AA cells that can charge both NiCad and NiMH however one must deploy a switch for each variety so I'm thinking that each type needs a dedicated charger.

Steve906 · Jul 3, 2020

Arvee said:
AgX said: Or do you charge your NiMh cells with the old chargers intended for the NiCd cells?

I have several chargers for AA cells that can charge both NiCad and NiMH however one must deploy a switch for each variety so I'm thinking that each type needs a dedicated charger.

The switch on the few I've dismantled just increases the time. NiMH are going to be higher capacity so require a bit longer. As long as the original charger is not some super quick - fast - ultra - mega job then it should be fine. Temperature is a good indicator, when the cells get hot they're full. Unlike Lipo or similar these are much easier to charge (at slow rates anyway) not too much to worry about.
I've done this with a few battery drills RC toys etc. with no problem.
Of course I'm not recommending you do this, just saying that I have. If not confident seek other advice/info!!!

Replacing Ni-Cad batteries in an electronic flash

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