Replacement battery for Metz 60 CT-4 (Drifit 6038)

[kl122002]

I use 2 of these battery in series

LiFePO4 32700 Rechargeable Cell: 3.2V 6000 mAh 19.2Wh

11895

www.batteryspace.com

I didn't buy the box from the guy. This is his Ebay listing. He made it to be used with 10 AA NiMH but I asked him if he could make one without the battery holder

Pardon Our Interruption...

The batteries last quite well. The only problem is that I have to remove them to charge because the charger that came with the flash won't charge them well.

I thought I have replied but just noticed it never show up here

At the end I used it with the battery basket , with the Ikea's AA recharagble batteries (2450mAh model) . It just worked same as it used to be and I am happy with it, except people today giving me a very odd looking when they see a guy carrying a battery box .

I have tried the ordinary alkaline batteries as well but that just won't fit. The flash would keep drawing power from the batteries but unable to trigger the flash.

 

[Ben Hutcherson]

FWIW, it's a bit of a labor of love but I've brought several Dry-fit batteries back to life by popping the cell vents off, rehydrating the electrolyte, and nursing them along for several days on a bench PSU. Usually if they'll take any current they come back to life eventually, but it may or may not be enough to do the job. If you can get it to take .2C or so(800mA) at ~6.6V, the battery will probably revive. Around 7V, you start to get electrolysis and if you have the cells uncapped electrolyte will spatter out, so be safe(and of course that also means hydrogen is hanging around). I've had the best luck with the black cased batteries, which are newer, and also have larger cell caps to use for re-hydration. PM me if you want to talk details on some of what I do, but I will say I can usually get one out of every 3 or 4 batteries I try back to life, and if they come back I do have some still working a year and a half later. I'm hesitant to say too much publicly as some of the things I've done to bring them back could be dangerous if done hap-hazardly. I'll just mention for completeness that you shouldn't even try unless you have a decent bench PSU that can go to ~30V and ideally at least 5A, although the main one I use maxes at 4A and doesn't hold me back too much. I'll also mention that I've done things like reverse charged, used a Lionel train transformer with a full wave bridge rectifier to give a 60hz pulse charge, and even charged on AC.

I've hacksawed open dead cases and put Sub-C Ni-Cds in them. 5 Ni-Cds will get you to the correct voltage, and I use that chemistry specifically because it can be charged in the 60-series power pack(just move the screw to Ni-Cd). I would not use NiMH as the Ni-Cd charging circuit relies on the overcharge tolerance of Ni-Cds, something that will kill NiMH quickly. Doing this is a messy job. Once I've opened the case, I use a pair of pliers I don't care about to pull the plates out, and everything pulled out of the case gets dropped into a bowl of baking soda. I rinse the case several times, and again dump rinsings into baking soda. The plates are lead and should be disposed of appropriately, and there's also silica gel in there that just gets messy. Once the case is clean, you have a couple of internal plastic partitions that serve to separate the plates but will need to be removed to put other cells in. I use a burr on a die grinder. A Dremel will work, but you'll want a flex shaft on it as the tool won't get as deep down into the case as you need to go. Also, it's very easy to go through the outside of the case. Stop periodically to let your tool cool(although an air die grinder tends to do that to some extent anyway...).

 

[wiltw]

It seems that there are still sources to obtain dryfit A200 batteries.
Also, Sonnenschein batteries with 6V 3.8Ah capacity are available, but unforunately I do not have dimensions of the battery to determine correct form factor to select the appropriate Sonnenschein battery.

I just consulted the Sonnenshein web page and it states, " For METZ Flash batteries the correct replacement # is now the A506/4.2 K" which has 6V 4.2Ah capacity. Its dimensions are 62.3mm x 52.0mm x 92.0mm, and Amazon has them for $19
There is a Powersonic equivalent for the A506/4.2K, and also one from SigmasTek, but I have not verified dimensions being equal/smaller than the Sonnenschein.

 

[Ben Hutcherson]

It seems that there are still sources to obtain dryfit A200 batteries.
Also, Sonnenschein batteries with 6V 3.8Ah capacity are available, but unforunately I do not have dimensions of the battery to determine correct form factor to select the appropriate Sonnenschein battery.

I just consulted the Sonnenshein web page and it states, " For METZ Flash batteries the correct replacement # is now the A506/4.2 K" which has 6V 4.2Ah capacity. Its dimensions are 62.3mm x 52.0mm x 92.0mm, and Amazon has them for $19
There is a Powersonic equivalent for the A506/4.2K, and also one from SigmasTek, but I have not verified dimensions being equal/smaller than the Sonnenschein.

I have ordered a few batteries, albeit not from Sonnenshein, that were listed as "equivalent" to an A506/4.2, although the tabbed version rather than the button of the official battery. At the time, I could not find an OEM Sonnenshein. I also looked at the Powersonic equivalent on the shelf at a local Batteries+ store.

In any case, every one I examined was too large to fit the battery compartment. It was not even a close ft-it was about an inch too wide. I ordered this one from Amazon, for example https://www.amazon.com/Sonnenschein-A506-4-2S-Emergency-Battery/dp/B00A829ULU . The photo shows a more rectangular battery than the nearly square one for the Metz flashes-I'd hoped it was a generic photo but the photo is accurate.

I will check as this could be a very big deal if the correct fitting batteries are available again. IMO, a good condition dry fit battery is still the best option for these flashes.

 

[wiltw]

I have ordered a few batteries, albeit not from Sonnenshein, that were listed as "equivalent" to an A506/4.2, although the tabbed version rather than the button of the official battery. At the time, I could not find an OEM Sonnenshein. I also looked at the Powersonic equivalent on the shelf at a local Batteries+ store.

In any case, every one I examined was too large to fit the battery compartment. It was not even a close ft-it was about an inch too wide. I ordered this one from Amazon, for example https://www.amazon.com/Sonnenschein-A506-4-2S-Emergency-Battery/dp/B00A829ULU . The photo shows a more rectangular battery than the nearly square one for the Metz flashes-I'd hoped it was a generic photo but the photo is accurate.

I will check as this could be a very big deal if the correct fitting batteries are available again. IMO, a good condition dry fit battery is still the best option for these flashes.

what are the dimensions of the original battery? In my earlier post I provided Sonnenschein specs for dimensions of the A506/4.2k ... 62.3mm x 52.0mm x 92.0mm

The A506/4.2S spec is listed at 62mm x 52mm x 98mm, which is different from the A506/4.2K listing of 62.3mm x 52.0mm x 92.0mm

What is confusing me is that various suppliers of the A506/4.2K battery state different height values, none of which match the 92.0mm spec which I had found on the Sonnenshein web site!

e.g. 62.3 × 52 × 101.9 (and the added height of the connection tabs cannot account for 10mm additional!)​

...and I cannot seem to find again the Sonnenshein data sheet which listed the A506/4.2K, I can only find the S versions listed!

 

[MattKing]

It in't so much the dimensions of the guts of the battery.
It is its compatibility with the housing it needs to fit into.
That housing holds a lot of the parts that make the flashes actually work.
One of these:

The red arrows indicate the special protuberance on the battery pack that position it. The connection terminals on the pack itself are in relatively unusual locations.
This listing shows something that might work:
https://www.battery.com.sg/product/6v-metz-60-38-dryfit-a50642-flash-light-battery-

 

[Ben Hutcherson]

what are the dimensions of the original battery? In my earlier post I provided Sonnenschein specs for dimensions of the A506/4.2k ... 62.3mm x 52.0mm x 92.0mm

The A506/4.2S at 62mm x 52mm x 98mm is different from the A506/4.2K 62.3mm x 52.0mm x 92.0mm

I just went and grabbed two batteries out of my "project" box(which has about 15 in it)

One is gray Sonnenchein branded marked A506 4,2 K, small cell caps, no locating rib, manufacture date I THINK of 1999, hand written sticker with an "in service" date of 2004

51.65mm x 61.55mm x 98.52

The other is Metz branded, black cased, hand written label indicating 2013 in-service date and has the locating ridge on the front. Dimensions are within a few tenths of a millimeter in every direction.

 

[wiltw]

I just went and grabbed two batteries out of my "project" box(which has about 15 in it)

One is gray Sonnenchein branded marked A506 4,2 K, small cell caps, no locating rib, manufacture date I THINK of 1999, hand written sticker with an "in service" date of 2004

51.65mm x 61.55mm x 98.52

The other is Metz branded, black cased, hand written label indicating 2013 in-service date and has the locating ridge on the front. Dimensions are within a few tenths of a millimeter in every direction.

It is pretty clear then, that 52mm x 62mm x 99mm should not be exceeded, unless one sees there is a bit of visible empty space in one direction, within the outer case+electronics.
It is apparent that if one could find a real A506/4.2k that meets Sonnenschein published specs, it would work.

 

[MattKing]

It is pretty clear then, that 52mm x 62mm x 99mm should not be exceeded, unless one sees there is a bit of visible empty space in one direction, within the outer case+electronics.

And it is also problematic if the battery is significantly smaller, or the connection terminals aren't located correctly.
The locater tab can be added with some ingenuity and some glue.

 

[wiltw]

And it is also problematic if the battery is significantly smaller, or the connection terminals aren't located correctly.
The locater tab can be added with some ingenuity and some glue.

We do have Sonnenshein's own statement to help, "For METZ Flash batteries the correct replacement # is now the A506/4.2 K" ...a German company's assessment of the suitability of its product to fit another German company's product. There is still the worry about the continued availability of the 4.2K product, since finding current literature that mentions it specifically seems problematic.

• batteryplex.com says 'call for a quote'
• https://www.master-instruments.com.au/products/61809/A506_4.2K.html "Sonnenschein A506/4.2K. Discontinued product - Contact us for a possible replacement."

 

[Ben Hutcherson]

It in't so much the dimensions of the guts of the battery.
It is its compatibility with the housing it needs to fit into.
That housing holds a lot of the parts that make the flashes actually work.
One of these:

The dimensions of the battery itself are HIGHLY relevant as there essentially is basically no extra room for a larger battery. There's actually a bit of room for the terminals to move up, though-in fact I suspect that a tabbed battery that could fit the compartment could be made to work fine with them.

The locator tab is actually irrelevant, and I have several batteries with non-Metz branding that don't have them, as well as at least one that has it crudely added-on. The Sonnenchein-branded battery I have sitting here says "For Metz" and just has a pasted-on label that says "This side out."

As a fun little side note, other than some minor cosmetics, the power pack did not change all through the 60 CT series. Early on the power switch changed(it use to be a gray slider set into the case, not the black slider used later) and the branding changed as to what it worked with, but electrically they all work the same and I use them indiscrimately with CT-1, CT-2, and CT-4 flash units.

That also gives rise to the locating tab-note that there are actually three apertures on the battery door. When Metz started making this pack, one of the battery options was a traditional flooded lead acid unit. Each of the three cells in this had a hydrometer to monitor state of charge on the front, and this was visible through the apertures. The Dry-Fit(gel cell) battery just used one to key, although there again things are perfectly fine without the key.

 

[MattKing]

I started out working with a 202.
I then progressed to a 402.
Then I got a 60-CT2.
A 60 CT-1 came later.
I think I have another 60-CT1 housing in storage as well - plus a whole slew of connecting cords and charging units.
So a fair bit of what @Ben Hutcherson posted above is familiar to me .
I don't think the flooded lead cel batteries were being sold new when the 60-CT series came out, but there was a decently large base of users that still had 402 and 202 units in use, along with the flooded lead acid cels used with them, so the doors and housings were made to be compatible with them.
There is a switch inside the housing which one used to indicate which type of pack was installed - flooded lead cel, NiCad or Dryfit - for the purposes of charging. That switch changed a bit over the years, as the flooded lead cels became rare.
FWIW, the 60-CT flashes remain the best auto-flashes I've ever used - when I have a battery for them.

 

[wiltw]

I looked at the Sonnenshein data sheet once again, and found that they have dimensioned drawings of the form factor of their different batteries.

There is only one form factor even close to the A506/4.2K... the a506/4.2S

The A506/4.2S has 62.3mm x 52mm x 96mm body, and its overall height counting the connections on the top is 101.9mm...identical specs as the A506/4.2K
From the Table listing their products...

And the connection type is identical. So purchase of the 4.2S will provide same fit as the product previously listed by Sonnenshein as 'for Metz'

 

[Chan Tran]

I make up a battery pack with 2 32700 LiFePo4 battery cells. I simply solder 2 wires to the terminals in the Metz battery compartment then I use the WAGO level nuts to connect to the pack. The 2 LiFePo4 cells give 6.6V and perform very well. Peak current is about 7A and recycling time is about 6 seconds. Fast enough but not too fast to cause any stress on the Metz circuit. 2 Cell pack of the Li-ion would drive the unit a bit too hard for my comfort. The battery is rated at 6000mAh so plenty of power there and the self discharge rate is low. I initially charged it with my own charger designed to have charge voltage of 7.3V and current limit to 1.2A and shut off at 0.06A. With this I can charge it in about 5 to 6 hours. Using the charger that came with the Metz works quite well. The charge voltage is 6.8V and current is low so it takes like 12 hours but it's about the same time as it takes for the orignal dryfit battery. The charge is terminated just fine. So I can now confidently use the charger that came with the Metz.
I think that works out very well for me.

 

[Tech500]

Just ordered Upgraded Rechargeable 6V 6Ah LiFePO4 Battery with USB Charge Design, 6 Volt Lithium Battery 2000+ Cycles with BMS (F1 Terminals) for Ride On Toys, Deer Feeder 2 Pack for under $25 from Amazon.com. Will follow up once I have a chance to test. Unsure of the capacitor state; it has been awhile since they have been used. Battery dimensions are (L x W x H): 2.71 x 1.77 x 3.97 inches, weight:0.6 lb.

LifePO4 Battery for Metz Flash?

 

[blee1996]

Just ordered Upgraded Rechargeable 6V 6Ah LiFePO4 Battery with USB Charge Design, 6 Volt Lithium Battery 2000+ Cycles with BMS (F1 Terminals) for Ride On Toys, Deer Feeder 2 Pack for under $25 from Amazon.com. Will follow up once I have a chance to test. Unsure of the capacitor state; it has been awhile since they have been used. Battery dimensions are (L x W x H): 2.71 x 1.77 x 3.97 inches, weight:0.6 lb.

LifePO4 Battery for Metz Flash?

2.71" on the Length wise might be too long to fit into the battery chamber. But pls try it and let us know.